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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 2:26:08 GMT -8
CAUTION THIS HAS GOTTEN LONGER THAN I EXPECTED IT TO BE
All knowing forum douchebags, once more I stand before thee and hope your wisdoms leaves a mark on this humble....
aw screw it. Guys need input. After about 6 sessions of Pathfinder with a few colleagues who I introduced to the hobby. Two of which have never played an RPG before and one used to play D&D 3.0. We added a few people to the group and had a really experienced GM run the first couple of sessions of Pathfinder. (Mainly to suit the 3.0 Player who insisted on something D&Desque). Now that GM had to quit the game as Life has gotten in the way and we manged to play less and less as the full group. Also it seemed that at least the two new players were struggling with the wide array of tactics, feats and skills that Pathfinder offers. The diceluck was more than rare at the table didn't help to improve things, now it's my turn to pick up the pieces as the only remaining person who ever ran a game before I thought of changing the system to Fate, and to SotC for starters. I would think that it suits the playstyle of the remaining guys better, and it will work better with the at times quite hectic lifestyle of everyone involved (all of us have jobs that needs us to travel around quite a bit) .
As for my questions: Are there any pitfalls for newbie roleplayer (and experienced once for that matter) I should be aware of when introducing Fate?
Is there a good resource for pulp style handhouts?
How do you guys handle "cinematics"? I don't want to railroad the players but the pathfinder game showed me that they tend to get stuck ( a lot). And talk about the situation out of character.
As for plot, let me pitch it and see what you think I wanted to go for a very VERY pulpy idea for there first adventure: working title: The Crystal of the Dragon Emperor
Set in the 1930s, WW2 was still in it's very early stages, America was not yet involved and there was still the lingering hope for a diplomatic solution.
The PCs are members of the London chapter of the Century Club, over their channels they become the information about a certain Lady Ming who started out as a small time Opium Den owner in Hong Kong and now was controlling most of the trade in the Harbour. As of late it is said that she withdrew herself to one of the small islands laid infront of Hong Kong and that more and more of her costumers disappear at the same time corpses of never seen before animals are washing ashore. So much indeed that
Upon further investigation the PC will hear the rumor about a new Drug that makes its rounds amongst the more illustrious parts of the Hong Kong Society. Again Mings name is thrown into the mix. It said to be using some sort of Crystal and is said to "teleport" the mind and give the User unkown sensations.
Rumour has it that a retired British Army officer (nods to Stu) who is now working for the British Gouvernment als a clerk, responsible for property distribution, has gone missing, just after more of the islands have been signed over to Ming
BACKROUND
That should be enough to hook the PCs and let them travel to HK. Upon arriving in Honk Kong the PCs, will encouter the "usual" the Nightclub in which they will get more clues pointing towards a connection between this new drug, Ming and possibly those washed up animals.
Here they will also encouter a small entourage of Germans. Unknown to the player they are (of course) a group of Nazis who stroke a deal with Ming in using her new "Drug" as an advantage to their cause.
The drug in question is a football sized dark ember coloured Crystal, that upon touch can transfer portions of the mind into any nearby sentient being. It is unknown how this works, but there is a legend of a holy stone that was used by a chinese emperor who was said to have dragon like features and strength (again this is information that the PCs could find out). The use of the Stone is highly addictive, and over the course of the time it will change the users anatomy to resemble more and more that of the host creature.
Ming is in cahoots with a group Nazi scientists who want to use the Stone to create "super" soldiers. (Not sure about this... Might be a bit TOO cliché), they provided the technical knowhow to harvest the power more efficiently, at the cost of even stronger physical alteration. The washed ashore bodies are those of earlier experiments.
Once the player are setting sail to the Mings islands they would encounter a Nazi Soldier, "mutated" Crystal users, Mings own protection forces and the final showdown will hopefully see them destroy the crystal after (and again this is something I am not entirely sure about as it is very cliché) the head scientist had what was considered to be a breakthrough and merges with orangutan (Gorrillas are SOOO last year) and the epic boss battle commences.
while I am not really a Fan of boss fights, for some reason I feel like every pulp story needs a big finale.
And now please start picking it apart and tell me where I went wrong, what I need to change and or improve
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 5:10:16 GMT -8
I'll respond to this as someone who is, myself, recently running FATE for the first time, but full disclosure, never actually dealt with SotC.
Given that, here's my input:
1. Fate should be pretty OK for new players. It's going to be much harder for experienced players, and possibly for you. Fate runs *very* differently than more familiar roleplaying games. Not only for being more narrative, and more collaborative... but the actual mechanics alter (for example), the way combat works. From a purely tactical perspective, you need to approach fights differently in the Fate engine than in, say, a D20 system.
2. Railroading *shouldn't* be a problem in Fate, because it's designed to allow a bunch of input from the players. They can literally change the story. However, this requires buy-in on their part. It's something my players have struggled with a lot, currently, but we are improving. You're going to have to encourage/force them to get involved. My current setup is that whoever committed the action, once we've determined success/failure, and by how many shifts, must narrate how it happens. This includes reactions from (again for example) NPCs who they've attacked.
3. Don't put down too much of your story yet. Your players will have the ability to alter the course pretty significantly, via assessments and declarations. So some of that may be a loss. Get some basic concepts down, and then just run with it.
4. Given all of this, and the background you listed... as much as I really am enjoying FATE, I think you might want to consider Savage Worlds, too. Disclaimer: I've never played Savage Worlds, just read it.
That's my input. Be warned it is biased, stupid, and mostly lies.
--Pukka Tukka
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 5:25:53 GMT -8
Thanks Pukka,
I will keep your advice in mind, never actually read Savage World, I see if I can get my paws on a copy over the holidays.
Fate and SotC especially came to mind because for now they see there characters more like Movie characters (at least for to of them, movie/film/TV chars are major influence on their char generation) while I do not think that that is the best way to deal with it it might give them an easier time to adjust and give there own input into the story.
As for narrative games, I was never the typical dungeon crawler (actually never played any D&D(Pathfinder) game until we started the last game so I felt quite restricted by the tight net of Pathfinder rules for everything. So I look forward to a bit more creative type of playing.
Interesting info regarding the plot, I must admit when I started the post I only had a few keywords on my list (Hong Kong, Crystal, Drugs, Nazis and Mutation/alteration) and fleshed it out as I typed. But will keep an open mind on how they can make the story their own
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Post by greatwyrm on Dec 13, 2012 6:28:06 GMT -8
All solid advice, but I'd like to expand a bit just on this. 3. Don't put down too much of your story yet. Your players will have the ability to alter the course pretty significantly, via assessments and declarations. So some of that may be a loss. Get some basic concepts down, and then just run with it. Get your essential NPCs figured out and a stable of faceless minions working for them. After that, a simple plan they're trying to carry out. A to B to C to D. When the PCs derail that plan (probably somewhere around A), have the bad guys do whatever they need to to inch toward the goal. The really key thing is, wherever the PCs go next, the bad guys are there being bad. It's not hand-wavey or metagaming or whatever. It's true to genre. The camera doesn't follow Indiana Jones while he has his quiet cup of coffee in the university cafeteria or Doc Savage while he picks up his dry cleaning. The important crap is happening where these people are. When you're new, rolling bad sucks. They don't need that level of anti-fun compounded by also not being where anything cool is happening.
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Post by shadrack on Dec 13, 2012 8:15:09 GMT -8
Just a few notes that occurred to me while reading. They are totally stream of consciousness though, so...
It sounds very pulpy, so SotC should work well.
Cliché? Cliché! There's no such thing as too cliché in pulp!
I would have a loose flowchart of how things interact.
When in doubt or if the PCs seem stymied attack them with ninjas or nazis, and be sure one of them is either able to be interrogated or has a oh so handy clue for the PCs.
I (personally) have a hard time with SotC because of the vast number of fate points you get. And the sizeable list of aspects (10 / character). It's definitely doable, and fun, but I might consider FATE core.
Try to spur the FATE point economy with some early compels (this will also help explain the concept). If you know your characters' main aspects, you can often figure a few out in advance. If someone has a fondness for the ladies, there happens to be a fine specimen at the first club you make it to (winks and offers a FATE point, eh? eh?...). If someone likes to gamble, well all be if there isn't a craps table right over there, (winks and offers a FATE point...). => If you send the message that you'll be dishing them out, they will be more likely to spend them. And they'll also be more likely to spend that first one you gave them that wasn't really 'theirs'.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 8:22:04 GMT -8
Good point I never thought of the Fatepoints of something they might NOT want to spend....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 13:47:01 GMT -8
Sounds like a good start for a pulp game. As mentioned though FATE makes railroading hard because the players have the power to change the story through their aspects. So as mentioned I wouldn't write down a plot so much as some themes and NPCs.
Basically write good detailed notes on all your major NPCs, In fact I would say roll them up as actual characters, using the same background sheets the players would use. This gives you histories, aspects, and skills for them so you have something to work with.
Make a list of clues the party might find, but don't worry about where they will find them. You won't know where they are going to go or explore so just have the clues ready and reveal them when you feel the story warrants it and it makes sense.
The same goes for your roster of villains and minions. Have them ready and put them into play when ever it seems to make sense rather then trying to guide the party to specific set pieces. Also since its pulp the bad guys will always have a tendency to show up unexpectedly.
That being said since you are going Pulp I'd suggest starting the game with a dramatic action packed set piece. Look at most pulp novels or movies and they tend to start with a bang to get the action rolling. Think of it as the Giant Boulder Scene from Indian Jones.
In the case of your story perhaps something like a man bursts into the Century Club looking for help, before he can say why a small gang of Chinese assassins attack. The party fights them, defeats them, and you throw out your first hint about Madame Ming with the dying breath of the guy who broke in looking for help.
Thus the party has a reason to hunt her, her men attacked them and killed some one. And since they have the name they have a starting point for the investigation that will send them to Hong Kong. Lots of other ways you could do it, but this is a nice easy example that gets the party straight into the action.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 7:14:19 GMT -8
Right I started flashing out some NPCs, to make thinks a little more interesting I will "build" the main Villains and the top NPCs with a friend in the standard SotC manner. Though there won`t be a game before January. But I really look forward to it now (though the potential players are somewhat reluctant, as they just "learned" Pathfinder)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 7:56:01 GMT -8
Just a few notes that occurred to me while reading. They are totally stream of consciousness though, so... It sounds very pulpy, so SotC should work well. Cliché? Cliché! There's no such thing as too cliché in pulp! I would have a loose flowchart of how things interact. When in doubt or if the PCs seem stymied attack them with ninjas or nazis, and be sure one of them is either able to be interrogated or has a oh so handy clue for the PCs. I (personally) have a hard time with SotC because of the vast number of fate points you get. And the sizeable list of aspects (10 / character). It's definitely doable, and fun, but I might consider FATE core. Try to spur the FATE point economy with some early compels (this will also help explain the concept). If you know your characters' main aspects, you can often figure a few out in advance. If someone has a fondness for the ladies, there happens to be a fine specimen at the first club you make it to (winks and offers a FATE point, eh? eh?...). If someone likes to gamble, well all be if there isn't a craps table right over there, (winks and offers a FATE point...). => If you send the message that you'll be dishing them out, they will be more likely to spend them. And they'll also be more likely to spend that first one you gave them that wasn't really 'theirs'. I'm actually trying to put together a FATE Core playtest pulp game at the moment. I'm very curious about how the significantly smaller number of FATE points to start will effect play style. With SOTC my player have never had a problem throwing points around because they had so many at the start. Also an idea for Sven, though its not a FATE book you might want to look for the Thrilling Tales book for Savage Worlds. Its packed with Pulp ideas and in the back they took the Lester Dent pulp plot formula and turned it into a dice based story generator that works really well for putting together a pulp game. Lester Dent for those unaware was the man behind Doc Savage and he also wrote a few of the Shadow novels. Great stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 2:11:53 GMT -8
New idea that came to me yesterday, for another campaign. Based on Donovans 1968 song "Atlantis" The continent of Atlantis was an island which lay before the great flood in the area we now call the Atlantic Ocean. So great an area of land, that from her western shores those beautiful sailors journeyed to the South and the North Americas with ease, in their ships with painted sails.
To the East Africa was a neighbour, across a short strait of sea miles.Is a broad yet close enough description of the location for the player to find out. The great Egyptian age is but a remnant of The Atlantian culture. The antediluvian kings colonised the world All the Gods who play in the mythological dramas In all legends from all lands were from fair Atlantis.Gives me a broad spectrum of hints to drop and the players enough room to put in their own ideas. Knowing her fate, Atlantis sent out ships to all corners of the Earth. On board were the Twelve: The poet, the physician, the farmer, the scientist, The magician and the other so-called Gods of our legends. Though Gods they were -12 NPCs that might or might not be still alive and might or might not want the PCs to find whatever is left of atlantis. All could have their own agenda, and if rolled up as normal PC their story are pretty easy to connect And as the elders of our time choose to remain blind Let us rejoice and let us sing and dance and ring in the new Hail Atlantis! Way down below the ocean where I wanna be she may be,This translated into latin or even better ancient greek, might be able to kick the campaign off
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 9:36:52 GMT -8
I really like that idea. Might I suggest as a typical Pulp style plot twist that whoever starts your adventurers on this quest is in fact one of the 12.
Its something the party are likely to guess early on even if its not true and of course the question then arises of if he wants the lost treasures of Atlantis found or if he merely wants the other 11 found and dealt with.
I may have to steal this as part of the metaplot for a possible campaign.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 9:46:13 GMT -8
Steal away my good man It was playing in the pub yesterday, and then it struck me as the perfect SotC beginning . Really look forward to the character gen.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 11:11:02 GMT -8
Well to actually give you twelve since the song only mentions five I made a list and figured for some added fun I did it in pairs of opposites. Essentially turning them into opposing forces, which gives you gods and the reason for so much war between cultures all those millennia.
I also imagine twelve immortals would likely have switched alliances many times over the years and thus none of them would trust the others by the time the story starts. Also I imagine that for the purposes of pulp they've all settled comfortably into their roles and thus the names still point to their current occupations. The Hanged Man for instance is likely a criminal of some kind. The Judge leading a life within some level of law and order. The Solider could be a general of some kind, The Farmer the owner of a great agricultural company.
So many ideas floating around. So here is the list I cam up with. Obviously I need more work to do at work:)
The High Priest The Devil The Physician The Magician The Solider The Farmer The Scientist The Fool The Judge The Hanged Man The Hermit The Patrician
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 11:19:32 GMT -8
Well to actually give you twelve since the song only mentions five I made a list and figured for some added fun I did it in pairs of opposites. Essentially turning them into opposing forces, which gives you gods and the reason for so much war between cultures all those millennia. I also imagine twelve immortals would likely have switched alliances many times over the years and thus none of them would trust the others by the time the story starts. Also I imagine that for the purposes of pulp they've all settled comfortably into their roles and thus the names still point to their current occupations. The Hanged Man for instance is likely a criminal of some kind. The Judge leading a life within some level of law and order. The Solider could be a general of some kind, The Farmer the owner of a great agricultural company. So many ideas floating around. So here is the list I cam up with. Obviously I need more work to do at work:) The High Priest The Devil The Physician The Magician The Solider The Farmer The Scientist The Fool The Judge The Hanged Man The Hermit The Patrician I thought to give them 6-8 live ones, so that way they have some tombs to search I love the Judge and the hanged Man, the aspects almost write themselve. Also some of them could have their own following, almost cultist like. I also want to dig a bit in the Egyptian mythology. Possibly a "Wild Dog" of some sorts.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 11:30:47 GMT -8
I would also add The Engineer The Sailor The Hunter,
while they do not follow the clear opposing force rule. I think they would make sense to settle somehwere and be worshipped/build great civilizations
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