maxinstuff
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Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
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Post by maxinstuff on Jul 3, 2013 14:07:38 GMT -8
I think an episode that addresses the whole 'hippy games' vs 'other cunts games' could be worthwhile.
There's seems to be a metric fuck-ton of tangential discussion about this here on the forums.
Episode?
I don't want it to turn into a GNS theory circle jerk - so let's not do that.
Instead I want to hear about the differences in both the player experience and that of the GM in these types of games.
Are 'hippy' games GM centric? (prep is holding you back man..... *long toke*)
Do 'other cunt' systems impose too much responsibility or work on the GM to ensure the enjoyment of other people?
Discuss!
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Post by malifer on Jul 3, 2013 16:19:37 GMT -8
I like both and think each is a different animal. It kind of depends what you're in the mood for.
Also prep is good question. Most GMs really like doing prep and the control. I remember in one podcast Stu mentioned one idea about the narrative games he didn't like was suddenly giving up all the prep he enjoys doing.
However when you don't have the time or if you are the type of GM that hates prep those hippie games are a godsend.
I was able to knock out a game of DW last week with maybe 20 minutes prep. It was awesome. Everyone at the table was discovering the game together.
However the next game I want to run is a murder mystery. So I'm going to spend time making clues and NPCs for the players to discover. It wont be a railroad, but the players will have less control over the world.
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Post by jazzisblues on Jul 3, 2013 16:31:29 GMT -8
What follows is my opinion. It may be total bollocks but it is my opinion. Both are valid. Both are great or balls depending on who's doing the playing on either side. Each will work better for different kinds of players. What I am resistant to do is say one is better than the other.
Narrative games give you freedom from constraint and limitation while traditional games give you structure and consistency. Since I tend to be inclined towards an open narrative one might think I would lean towards the narrative games but I like the stability of having rules I can twist and wrench into what I want them to be.
JiB
Sent from my MB886 using proboards
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Post by guitarspider on Jul 3, 2013 18:28:02 GMT -8
I've noticed "Hippie" games typically direct the Gm towards the exact kind of prep he needs to be doing, if there is prep. Dogs in the Vineyard for instance absolutely requires prep (not even I can wing a DitV game ), but the game tells you exactly what to do, so the GM ends up with 1-3 pages of notes and that will last until the players are done with the town. Mouseguard is very similar, tells you exactly what you will need (and it's not actually much). Of course many of these games don't feature any prep or so little it's not worth mentioning, which means you can run a game even when you've had no time to prepare whatsoever, which kind of forces the GM and the players to be creative, which is great. With the traditional games it's typically "go and prepare your adventure" and you're not exactly sure what and how much you're supposed to do unless you've done it a number of times and have found some rhythm that works for you. I've noticed that when I convinced some of my players to try and run a game. The ones who chose narrative systems had much less problems with prep than the ones choosing traditional systems. System was probably not the only factor, but I do think it matters. All those new rules, the plot, the monsters and npcs, the pcs, possibly special items, it adds up. As a GM I heavily rely on improvisation myself, so I tend not to prep a lot no matter which system I use. Most narrative games are great for that, and dovetail nicely with the fact that I care most about the story, but the more traditional systems usually are less flexible in that regard. Unless you know the system well, you'll generally have a hard time improvising new monsters that are as strong as you want them to be, or you'll be looking for how this or that weapon/spell/item/thingy works that you want to introduce. So while playing traditional systems can be fun, when I run something I'll pretty much always prefer narrative games. More flexible, less time invested up front, more creative atmosphere. My experience of course, mileage may vary, especially if you want lots of battle tactics in your game. May I direct your attention towards A Taste For Murder? No GM, no prep, but still a murder mystery. You can even LARP it.
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Post by malifer on Jul 3, 2013 18:57:31 GMT -8
May I direct your attention towards A Taste For Murder? No GM, no prep, but still a murder mystery. You can even LARP it. I have a scenario in mind and it requires a GM. Thank you though I haven't acquired a taste for the GM-less games yet, but I'll look into it.
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Post by guitarspider on Jul 4, 2013 3:16:07 GMT -8
Tbh it was unlikely to fit what you wanted to do anyway, because it's supposed to play like classic British crime novels, Agatha Christie and such (one of the downsides of many narrative games: narrow focus). It's a great example of what you can do with no GM and no prep though and we're talking about GM/player experience, so I felt like it wasn't too far off topic to mention it.
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Post by Skizzle on Oct 13, 2013 6:27:13 GMT -8
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 14, 2013 4:53:41 GMT -8
I'm with JiB on this one - I like narrative exposition within the constraints of a ruleset that begs to be forcibly fitted into a gimp suit and made to submit to my will. "I'll smoke the toke but I don't inhale, maaan" Aaron
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 11:16:15 GMT -8
Is a 'Hippy Game' defined as low prep or rules light around here? Or both?
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Post by Stu Venable on Oct 16, 2013 12:01:22 GMT -8
I think it needs both to be a hippy game -- plus it should be a bit wibbly-wobbly around narrative control too.
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maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
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Post by maxinstuff on Oct 16, 2013 12:43:45 GMT -8
Is a 'Hippy Game' defined as low prep or rules light around here? Or both? Apocalypse world and its hacks, and FATE are probably the flagship hippy games. Basically anything from the new school story-telling koombayah singing macrame weaving games (fate, *world) Then you have GURPS, with its bell curve math and diminishing returns and strategic combat rules. A mans game. For killing shit in the face.
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Post by Kainguru on Oct 16, 2013 13:19:56 GMT -8
Is a 'Hippy Game' defined as low prep or rules light around here? Or both? Both, plus they don't like washing, walk around on your nice carpet with dirty feet, eat far too many legumes than could possibly be healthy for their digestive tract and the olfactory senses of those around them and they steal your stash when you're not looking . . . Aaron
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 13:33:10 GMT -8
Is a 'Hippy Game' defined as low prep or rules light around here? Or both? Both, plus they don't like washing, walk around on your nice carpet with dirty feet, eat far too many legumes than could possibly be healthy for their digestive tract and the olfactory senses of those around them and they steal your stash when you're not looking . . . Aaron Those bastard hippy games! I hate 'em! Damn commies! www.morningskye.com
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 13:39:40 GMT -8
Is a 'Hippy Game' defined as low prep or rules light around here? Or both? Apocalypse world and its hacks, and FATE are probably the flagship hippy games. Basically anything from the new school story-telling koombayah singing macrame weaving games (fate, *world) Then you have GURPS, with its bell curve math and diminishing returns and strategic combat rules. A mans game. For killing shit in the face. I guess I'm all in for hippy games then. The last campaign I played was Dresden FATE and I'm about to run a Dungeon World game. On top of that I've written and published two games that don't use dice and I'm working on two more that have dice but the dice don't have numbers on them.
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Post by Stu Venable on Oct 16, 2013 14:27:50 GMT -8
Games without dice are definitely hippy games.
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