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Post by moonday on Aug 31, 2013 21:00:44 GMT -8
Earlier today D.T. Pints participated in a Cons Without Borders event about online conventions (the link is here if anyone would like to watch it), and it rapidly became clear that we need to discuss the need for putting some policies in place for Jackercon. I'm going to post a bit of our email conversation here so y'all know what we've been thinking.
Here are some of the questions I came up with while the "Online Cons" panel was broadcasting:
1. Should we not allow people under 18 into the games? We have a lot of "not safe for kids" content in the podcast, and that does carry over into our collective sense of humor. At the very least, I think the no "on-air" for events with minors needs to be a rule.
2. Should we have the GMs do some kind of rating system? I think that'd be pretty impossible simply because you never know what the players are going to do.
3. Harassment policy: Do we need to come up with one?
4. Do we need to put a disclaimer in somewhere similar to Stu's introduction to the podcast? I hate to even say that, it sounds so PC, but with the other panelists comments it made me wonder if we need to plan ahead with things like that.
And here is some of D.T. Pints response (I hope you don't mind that I'm posting this):
Yeah I was just looking through the Indie Game posts on G+ and there some pretty heated discussions regarding harassment, diversity, etc. And I immediately thought of your story..."Oh fuck, this shit happens." So I agree it would behove us to get together and agree about some guidelines regarding this stuff just to be safe. I haven't really seen 'underage' representation that I can pick out on the forums. But I have a feeling the next Jackercon will be markedly bigger than the last and with more people come more potential problems. "Oh I remember the good ol' days of Small Town Jackercon..."
Lets start a discussion on the forums. There are enough parents and inappropriate people on there to come to a consensus (or non-consensus).
And as far as a pre-show disclaimer...yeah that's probably a good idea too.
I've gone through the websites of about 25 different conventions (insomnia sucks, btw) looking to see what kind of harassment policies and such they have in place. About 1/3 of them had no policies at all posted. I'm going to list some of the ones I thought could be relevant to Jackercon below. These are mostly just cut and pasted from various websites, so we’d have to change wording on anything we decide to use (if we decide to use any of it at all). Some are repetitive, but each had a slightly different take, so I thought I’d include them here. I’m not endorsing any of these, I’m just trying to show what other people have done so we have a starting point for the discussion.
1. Jackercon reserves the right to censor or refuse screen names that may be considered obscene, vulgar, or otherwise offensive or inappropriate. Such determination will be made at the sole discretion of Jackercon staff.
2. Jackercon forbids abusive, insulting, harassing or intimidating behavior. This type of behavior will get you removed from a game, and possibly from the entire convention.
3. Participation in some games by minors may require parental permission or the presence of a supervising adult. Some program items dealing with adult topics may be closed to children under 18 years of age. Although children under 18 years of age may register as "adults," membership in the convention in no way supersedes local, state, or federal laws. Some items may require the supervision of a child by parents. It is the parents' responsibility to review the schedule and decide which items they will allow their child to participate in, either with or without adult supervision.
4. Many of the games will be recorded or “On-Air.” GM’s, ask permission before you photograph or audio/videotape any individual or group. Anyone who does not wish to be photographed or recorded should state their wishes unambiguously.
5. Jackercon is a mostly PG-13 event, with gaming events that are, in nature, appropriate for teens to adults, with suggested parental attendance for those of younger nature. To that end, any child that is 13 years or younger must have an adult in attendance with them. Jackercon does host adult oriented events for attendees 18+ or older. No minors will be admitted to the events. 18+ events will be clearly marked on the schedule as such. Jackercon claims no responsibility for those minors in attendance, and will not act as 'surrogate parent' for the event. Please keep in mind your child's maturity, your values and levels of tolerance, and your choices when allowing your son(s) and/or daughter(s) to attend our event.
6. Jackercon is a convention for geeks of all ages, sizes, shapes, colors, fandoms, genders, and orientations. Everyone is welcome to come and have a good time. In order to keep this a safe and welcoming space for everyone, please treat your fellow congoers with respect and decency. Harassment and/or discrimination will not be tolerated.
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Post by moonday on Aug 31, 2013 21:04:42 GMT -8
Those were some specific rules listed above. Here are some more general ones I found:
Jackercon tries to maintain a certain balance of fun and insanity during the event. When attendees cross the line into the disorderly realm then we have to step in and be the bad guys. Punishment for disorderly conduct ranges from a polite private conversation informing the attendee that their behavior is unacceptable to banning the attendee from any and all events we hold. We don’t like being the bad guys, really, don’t make us be that guy
The primary purpose of Jackercon is for the attendees to have fun. To make this happen, Jackercon has established certain rules of conduct. These rules were created to ensure the behavior of any one group of attendees does not disturb the attendance as a whole, nor detract from the relaxed and comfortable atmosphere of the convention. Jackercon welcomes everyone; however, theconvention’s management reserves the right to deny or revoke the attendance of any individual at any time for any reason. This action may be undertaken when an individual's presence or behavior causes significant interference with conventionl operations or adversely affects the organization's relationship with its guests
Jackercon expects its members to respect each other and behave in a generally civilized fashion. Members should respect common sense rules for public behavior, personal interaction, common courtesy, and respect for private property. If you wouldn't do it in public, please don't do it here.
These policies may be modified at any time, as deemed necessary by Jackercon.
This was my favorite of the policies I came across, found at the Templecon site: What kind of rules are there? What kind of atmosphere should I expect?
That's actually two questions. Which is ok, because we don't have many rules. Just don't be stupid, and treat everyone else with respect. We're really not huge on telling you what you can and can't do (that said, if you seriously need rules, feel free to peruse our Policies page). We started this convention specifically to get away from the commercial, the cliquish, and the boring. We started this to provide a weekend-long refuge for actual grown-ups who don't need their hands constantly held when they just want to cut loose, relax, and have a insane weekend. We're not going to tell you to keep your voice down or to put your drink away here because someone might be offended by the sight of a freaking beer.
We aren't busting our asses and subsisting on cases of stale instant ramen to fabricate some homogeneous corporate circle-jerk that tries to cater to the whims of every single idiot out there. We know some people are going to read the website, and be offended at both our attitude and our terrible attempts at humor, and most importantly that we don't have some kind of sacrosanct reverence for the smelly, antisocial neck-beard demographic who love to whine more than have fun. It's just not us.
What do all of y'all think about this? Do you believe we should have some sort of policies in place to avoid having problems in the future? If so, what policies do you think we should have?
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Post by Kainguru on Aug 31, 2013 23:26:42 GMT -8
I kinda agree but then there's that bit of me that itches and screams : caveat emptor . . . It's THE Internet . . . 4Chan survives and so does the collective spirit of Anonymous Sometimes rules are counter productive and cause more problems than they solve . . . sometimes rules exist to stop people going forward. The danger is in making a system or code of conduct so complex that it's self defeating. People will be offended - so what . . . That's life and logging into the Internet doesn't entitle anyone to any sort of filter other than that of their own personal self imposed preferences. Our only real responsibility is to 'do no harm*' nothing more . . . Aaron * where harm does NOT equate offence Attachments:
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 1, 2013 1:51:38 GMT -8
1. Don't be a dick. 2. If you aren't sure if you are being a dick, you probably are. 3. If you have to be told more than once to stop being a dick then you certainly are one and will be booted (for clarification on why, refer to rule 1).
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 1, 2013 2:06:19 GMT -8
1. Don't be a dick. 2. If you aren't sure if you are being a dick, you probably are. 3. If you have to be told more than once to stop being a dick then you certainly are one and will be booted (for clarification on why, refer to rule 1). +10 K.I.S.S (I can't 'like' a post on my ProBoards app - but will do) Aaron
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 1, 2013 3:04:48 GMT -8
As for minors, I personally think that we should have games that are intended to be PG-13 labeled as such, rather than labeling adult only ones.
Two reasons:
1: minors will be a minority if there are any at all. 2: It will inform the behaviour of other players in those games.
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Post by ayslyn on Sept 1, 2013 4:21:26 GMT -8
As to the "I don't wanna be recorded" thing, I think you can make a blanket, "These games WILL be recorded, so if that's a problem, maybe this isn't for you." statement.
Seriously, anyone with any REAL issue with their being recorded, probably won't be on a public video chat system to begin with...
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 1, 2013 5:04:39 GMT -8
As the father of small children I feel that a quick announcement from the GM at the start of the game is sufficient. Parents should be aware of their children's online habits and exercise the appropriate caution. Having been a part of this community for over a year now, I trust the judgement of the GMs that they wouldn't cross the line if they knew a minor was in their game. Huzzah! +1 Well put Aaron
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Post by Houndin on Sept 1, 2013 6:55:22 GMT -8
As another father, I wouldn't let my kids game with us, ever. That said, i think blanket statements work best.
1) We intend to rebroadcast as many games as possible, barring technical difficulties. Assume you're being recorded.
2) We're here to have fun, try to not damage anyone else's fun in the process.
3) Many of these games deal with mature topics or contain mature humor. Use your own discretion.
4) Wheaton's Law is in effect here. If you don't know what that is look it up.
Maybe we could have a small, consistent blurb for each GM to read at the beginning of the recording.
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 1, 2013 7:25:54 GMT -8
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Post by Stu Venable on Sept 1, 2013 8:56:07 GMT -8
I have a couple observations and a few suggestions. Take them with a grain of salt if you like.
Indie+ is in my opinion too sensitive to negative criticism about their content. One poster on G+ called it the "heckler's veto," meaning one person is offended and complains and that sort of content gets banned/disappears, etc. They are very responsive to people feeling 'safe' which is often interpreted there as, "no one will say anything that will bring up bad memories, won't say things that offend me, etc." It's a dangerous road to walk down, as it often ends in content that's like a bowl of warm mayonnaise.
Also a stated policy is going get used by people with an agenda to stifle content they disagree with, so I would be ready for that. I've seen it happen plenty of time. There are plenty of people out there who are too comfortable with telling other people what they can and cannot say. I don't know if you can word it in such a way to avoid it, because, well these are gamers, and many are also rules lawyers.
That said, having a general disclaimer and acknowledgement of being recorded is a very prudent thing to do. I would go so far as to put a brief "explicit content" disclaimer in your lower third (or the GM's lower third at least). Also, having each member state that they agree to be recorded is a good idea.
As far as gamers who are minors: My suggestion is to not allow them. Depending where they live, it might not be legal for them to be recorded without their parents' consent. I would have a shit-fit if my kids were put on a G+ hangout on-air, if I didn't know about it.
They might lie and say their parents gave them permission. The story might turn to more adult topics. It's best, as far as I'm concerned to say "no." Especially when it's recorded.
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Post by Kainguru on Sept 1, 2013 9:31:50 GMT -8
Making a bowl of warm mayonnaise can be fun though . . . and challenging, depending on bowl size . . . Aaron
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D.T. Pints
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JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
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Post by D.T. Pints on Sept 1, 2013 10:25:33 GMT -8
I have a couple observations and a few suggestions. Take them with a grain of salt if you like. Indie+ is in my opinion too sensitive to negative criticism about their content. One poster on G+ called it the "heckler's veto," meaning one person is offended and complains and that sort of content gets banned/disappears, etc. They are very responsive to people feeling 'safe' which is often interpreted there as, "no one will say anything that will bring up bad memories, won't say things that offend me, etc." It's a dangerous road to walk down, as it often ends in content that's like a bowl of warm mayonnaise. Also a stated policy is going get used by people with an agenda to stifle content they disagree with, so I would be ready for that. I've seen it happen plenty of time. There are plenty of people out there who are too comfortable with telling other people what they can and cannot say. I don't know if you can word it in such a way to avoid it, because, well these are gamers, and many are also rules lawyers. That said, having a general disclaimer and acknowledgement of being recorded is a very prudent thing to do. I would go so far as to put a brief "explicit content" disclaimer in your lower third (or the GM's lower third at least). Also, having each member state that they agree to be recorded is a good idea. As far as gamers who are minors: My suggestion is to not allow them. Depending where they live, it might not be legal for them to be recorded without their parents' consent. I would have a shit-fit if my kids were put on a G+ hangout on-air, if I didn't know about it. They might lie and say their parents gave them permission. The story might turn to more adult topics. It's best, as far as I'm concerned to say "no." Especially when it's recorded. Thanks for that Stu. These were issues that I honestly wasn't even thinking about until that panel. It reminded me of some of the letters to the show along the lines of "Hey good content, I just don't like the cursing, belching, FATAL jokes so I'm out." I played eight games in Jackercon. There were plenty of all those things in pretty much every game but I never felt that any "invisible line" was crossed leaving anyone offended. I'm sure those lines were there we just played with 25+ people who were mature enough and socially aware to just not be a dick. So, I think a disclaimer about explicit content from the GM running the game would be good. And an explicit tag on the hangout lower third sounds adequate. Also, after hearing from three dads who said pretty much what I was thinking. I think NO KIDS (no under +18) is a good rule. If at some point games occurring outside of Jackercon would like to incorporate younger gamers thats a different deal. But I see this con based around an explicit show; and it doesn't seem to make sense to have kids hanging out in that space. By the way Moonday that Templecon policy was great. Nice way to expand on : Have fun! Don't be a dick!. Maybe that will be our first intergalactic charter. It will be interesting to see how "VirtuaCON" turns out... 80+ GMs!?! Panels, guest speakers...etc. And its their first one ? The fact that Jackercon is an event based upon a group of people who for the most part have been interacting on the forums already I think greatly alleviates any potential for the REAL DOUCHEBAGS to sneak in and create our first ONLINE GAMING NIGHTMARE...(oh wait Moonday already sent that story in...). Thanks again for the input crew.
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Post by moonday on Sept 1, 2013 16:49:22 GMT -8
Most virtual cons are open to everyone, so they have a lot of different people participating. When you open things up like that you never know what you are going to get. I think we should make it known to all who want to join us that we aren't a politically correct group of gamers. A disclaimer posted on the google+ site, a policy page with something similar to Templecon's policy, and an explicit content image might be enough.
I also think we shouldn't go out and do all the huge promoting of the con the way these other virtual cons do. It started up as a way for people who are on the forums and other Happy Jackers to get together and have some fun, and I think it ought to stay that way. If you come across people who would fit in with our more adult style of play, invite them. I just think it'd be better for Jackercon to be a word of mouth thing than an open to all event.
I agree with Stu about not letting minors into the games. I'd find it hard to believe that there is anyone here who would do anything questionable, but I just don't think Happy Jack's is meant for kids. Let the other cons be family friendly. Let this one be strictly for the adults.
That's my 2 cents.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Sept 1, 2013 16:55:16 GMT -8
Most virtual cons are open to everyone, so they have a lot of different people participating. When you open things up like that you never know what you are going to get. I think we should make it known to all who want to join us that we aren't a politically correct group of gamers. A disclaimer posted on the google+ site, a policy page with something similar to Templecon's policy, and an explicit content image might be enough. I also think we shouldn't go out and do all the huge promoting of the con the way these other virtual cons do. It started up as a way for people who are on the forums and other Happy Jackers to get together and have some fun, and I think it ought to stay that way. If you come across people who would fit in with our more adult style of play, invite them. I just think it'd be better for Jackercon to be a word of mouth thing than an open to all event. I agree with Stu about not letting minors into the games. I'd find it hard to believe that there is anyone here who would do anything questionable, but I just don't think Happy Jack's is meant for kids. Let the other cons be family friendly. Let this one be strictly for the adults. That's my 2 cents. This sure simplifies things. I endorse this product and/or service.
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