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Post by henryhankovitch on Nov 20, 2013 18:54:11 GMT -8
It has to be Nikoma. Because then Stu has to RP as Nikoma.
Additionally--and I think this may have emerged accidentally as the game went on--I actually think Nikoma is the most proactive member of the group. He's been the driving force in a number of subplots, the one who defines goals and tries to achieve them. I'm quite serious when I say he's shown the most leadership potential so far.
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Post by Stu Venable on Nov 20, 2013 19:15:19 GMT -8
I think you pegged Nikoma. The only saving grace is his presumed Scorpion wife, Aiyaka, would be there as well. While she is quite the drinker herself, that was mostly out of boredom, as she had little to do after it became clear that Renjiro was uninterested.
The other question is would Nikoma take the position if asked? That's Dave's call. Clearly his presumed father-in-law assumes the answer is yes, and would be a bit miffed if he declined.
There are a couple interesting questions to ask though:
If he'd already joined Scorpion as a result of marriage, it's likely he would be off the table as a candidate in Renjiro's eyes -- mostly because of the political ramifications.
And, if Nikoma agreed, Aiyaka would become Crane, yes? So, would she stop wearing her mask?
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Post by cadave on Nov 20, 2013 21:47:07 GMT -8
That's an interesting question, would Nikoma transfer to Scorpion in the first place now that his family is so much more than a new vassal.
Really it depends on the importance of Aiyaka's father.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Nov 20, 2013 22:05:58 GMT -8
I'm going to have to go with "another samurai" only because I don't see Renjirou naming any of the PCs as his successor. I think it should simply go to whomever is next in line according to the family tree. If that means Roukai gets named, so be it. However, I think Renjirou would only do that if Roukai married the Lion Courtier (Sugita?) to give the powerful but silent samurai a partner who can make up for his shortcomings.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Nov 20, 2013 22:16:13 GMT -8
From what I've read so far, it seems the bride normally joins her husband's family, except in a few matriarchal families. And from the outset Aiyaka's mission was to negotiate marriage with the daimyo of the Asai Valley. So presumably they would want her to join the Crane, rather than the other way around. I don't think there's much political gain for the Scorpion if Nikoma was brought into their clan by marriage.
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fredrix
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Post by fredrix on Nov 20, 2013 22:18:59 GMT -8
I can't seem to bite on this one. But Ranjiro knows of his own dishonor, so I think he'd retain Junichiro's son in the valley. He might send one of our Samurai to the valley to serve the son, and to be his eyes and ears there to make sure no plots are hatched.
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Post by ayslyn on Nov 20, 2013 22:32:41 GMT -8
From what I've read so far, it seems the bride normally joins her husband's family, except in a few matriarchal families. Not in Rokugan. The lower status person joins the higher's clan.
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Post by Stu Venable on Nov 20, 2013 23:06:38 GMT -8
That's an interesting idea, and one that complicates the story even more, which I love.
It would give us TWO possible heirs: Sokuba (Junichiro's son) and Roukai (Ichiro's son). Both would have a valid claim IF Renjiro didn't indicate or designate an heir before his passing, and I'm sure he'd do so.
What we don't know (including me, truthfully) is how Sokuba comported himself during the coup. Did he take the Daimyo-ship reluctantly, or was he eager and greedy? His behavior and attitude (if Renjiro was there to witness it) could have a lot to do with his fate once his father died. The character never appeared "on screen" and I assumed he wouldn't so I didn't really develop him. Maybe I should now. At the very least, he would do his father's bidding, just as any Samurai would obey the will of his daimyo.
And I have to defend Renjiro a bit -- sorry, he's my marysue NPC -- I see him putting honesty above duty in this case -- which for a courtier is a bit uncharacteristic, I suppose. He would well know the complications of not having a clear heir, but I see him as having the true love disad. Even though I see him as a ruthless SOB, I also see him as a romantic at heart.
He chose to shirk this one (admittedly important) duty of any Daimyo in order to honor the one he loved and lost, and also to remain honest to his nature.
He is a conflicted man. We can assume that in private some very frank and pragmatic discussions (or arguments) happened between Renjiro and Junichiro. They were brothers, and they loved each other, which is why Junichiro refused to duel him. (and also why he didn't just kill him after the coup) This is also one reason why Renjiro sent his most loyal samurai away at a moment of great personal danger. Even with displaying Master Higo's sword in his cell, Junichiro was trying to remind Renjiro in his own brutish way that he did what he did for the good of the Family.
I tried to make them at odds, but neither evil.
One was pragmatic. One was romantic.
The fact that listeners and players taking both of their sides tells me I did what I set out to do.
Personally, I like the idea of someone besides a PC becoming Daimyo, as I'd rather not play someone's PC as as NPC. But from Renjiro's point of view, these four character -- Nikoma especially -- did great and dangerous deeds to restore him to power -- in some cases besmirching their own honor to do so. I think he would reward this.
But more than anything else -- after 20 years as daimyo -- he would want to leave the family's holding in capable hands.
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Post by joecrak on Nov 21, 2013 5:09:56 GMT -8
One thing I might recommend, if it doesn't interfere with plans too much, is to have the follow up story take place 40 years later, instead of 20.
My reasoning is that only 20 years can make the character choices potentially limiting from the narrative perspective, whereas 40 years the PCs can play the grandchildren of the characters. And they could be of any clan.
Kimi already posted what happened to her character, so if Is only 20 years later that character is a Mantis, because she married into Mantis and had no desire to go back to her home.
Her grandchildren could be the product of any combination, thus giving players more creative control in creation. This can be a big thing for some people, but I also know people that would always rather play a pre-gen.
The other thing I think you should maybe flesh out is Junichiro's son. If In the time he ruled the valley, he was fair and just, would Renjiro hold him responsible for this fathers choice? And does Renjiro admit what his brother a attempted was for the good of the family, does he feel guilt for his brothers death? Is Junichiro's son merely ruthless and greedy? Everyone has flaws of course, but would Renjiro see him as a better heir than any of the PCs?
Anyway I love the amount of discussion this is all promoting!
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Nov 21, 2013 5:30:08 GMT -8
Just finished listening to it, and I really enjoyed this. I think it stands as one of the best actual play series I've ever heard. I really enjoyed how the game worked out. Great job Stu, Kimi, CADave, Stork and Tyler. Major kudos to all of you. JiB I can't agree more. Audio quality aside(though let's face it... that's the biggest reason I stuck it out this long with an actual play), the pure quality of the gaming on both sides of the table was amazing. There were a few minor rules miscues but nothing that ruined the story in the slightest. I voted for Roukai to be the new daimyo. Purely for the reason that he is the eldest son of the eldest son, so to me that makes him easily the clear choice. My personal thoughts on the next pickup point should be at the funeral of the final PC to die. Keep the PCs as memories and not as active influences over what is going on now. It stands to reason that now that the PCs are the right hand men(and woman) of the new daimyo of this area that they will have their hands full dealing with all the duties that such a position entails rather than pursuing their family background. Let each of the players write up the story of their character's lives and how they died, then relate that at the beginning of the next session. Have each player create their grandchild(they should all still be Crane there wouldn't be a reason any of them would be of other clans), then draw from a hat.
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Post by joecrak on Nov 21, 2013 6:22:06 GMT -8
I have to disagree with you SirGuido there are many reasons why the new PCs could and would not be Crane. Marriage being the most obvious. Plus on a personal level, Crane clan is my most hated clan. Bunch of snobs that pay others to do the hard work for them, then Decry the people they paid for doing such vulgar things. While Nikoma would be amusing, having a scorpion wife makes him a last possible choice to run a portion of crane lands. He may trust her, she might even love him, but Nikoma has higher ups that, and she like all scorpion have a duty to report everything back to their clan. Too much risk. Plus depending on how long Renjiro takes to declare his heir, the marriage might mean he would take her name, her father seemed like an ambassador, so her status could be higher. I guess another option is what do the individual players want to try playing, and how can we work those wants into the narrative?
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Post by John Drake on Nov 21, 2013 7:05:38 GMT -8
From what I've read so far, it seems the bride normally joins her husband's family, except in a few matriarchal families. Not in Rokugan. The lower status person joins the higher's clan. While that's mostly true it's important to note it's not a universal truth. Some families have unique marriage customs that differ from the norm. As Henry noted some families are matriarchal with females in most of the higher ranking positions. Some of the more prominent examples of those families would be Unicorn's Utaku, Mantis' Moshi, and the Matsu family of the Lion clan. In the case of the Matsu family, the costume is that if a man from an outside family marries a Matsu woman he has to join the Matsu family. Also if a Matsu man marries outside the Matsu family, he's expected to never use the Matsu name again. I only bring this up as a because of a possible plot point. I never caught his name, but it could come up in the odd chance that Lion Daddy-san managed to fight/work/scrap his way to being the damiyo of a Matsu vassal family or was originally a Matsu. He may expect anyone marrying his daughters to join his family by default.
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Post by SirGuido on Nov 21, 2013 10:58:36 GMT -8
I have to disagree with you SirGuido there are many reasons why the new PCs could and would not be Crane. Marriage being the most obvious.
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Post by joecrak on Nov 21, 2013 11:11:52 GMT -8
I have to disagree with you SirGuido there are many reasons why the new PCs could and would not be Crane. Marriage being the most obvious. But what of the marriages already arranged! They would be fools to make enemies of the Scorpion and Lion! Not to mention taking player choice from their hands, if they only have the core book then they really only have the 4 schools to choose from outside of buying different school advantage. Plus at this point a bit moot considering Kimi's posted wrap up. (Mantis is the best!)
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Post by fredrix on Nov 21, 2013 11:33:59 GMT -8
No, Monkey is the best!
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