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Post by bradscott on Dec 1, 2013 23:36:31 GMT -8
Hey all,
I'm working on the story line for a one-shot/con game, haven't settled on a system yet, but at this stage that's still irrelevant. It will been an investigation game, cop drama sort of thing where the PC will be investigating a murder.
Now the twist will be that the original murder is actually just a way for the bad guys to get a certain Private Investigator out in the open so they can take him out. Him having gotten too close to finding out something.
So in the opening scene as the beat cops, detective and PI are at the scene a drive by shooting occurs and the PI is killed, hopefully the players will initially think the drive by is related to the murder rather then a deliberate hit on the PI. However as they investigate the will discover that is was a hit and then they will investigate him and the cases he working on to solve the mystery and catch the bad guy.
So here is my question, do you think its ok to have a player start the game playing the PI knowing full well I will be killing them in the first scene?
I was originally just going to have him be an NPC but I'm afraid it might be a little obvious that his death is more then just an unlucky coincidence if if I kill an NPC straight up. Plus it sends a strong message to the group if a PC dies early like that, keeps them on their toes and very aware of their PC's mortality.
Obviously I will have another character ready to go for the player who just died and its not like they will have long to get attached the the character.
Assuming I do have the PI start as a PC how do I handle it, should I tell the player in advance and ask him/her to keep it from the group, do I tell the whole group? Should I try make it seem like it was unplanned and that's just how the dice fell (behind a screen)apologize the player and set them up with another character sheet.
Thoughts?
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Dec 2, 2013 0:38:03 GMT -8
I'm intrigued by the idea.
This being a convention game, the PC's death will not cause any real sense of loss in the player or the group. The character is a pre-gen, the game is a one-shot, and as the death happens in the opening scene, the player will not have enough time to feel any sense of attachment to their character.
What a PC death will do is show that you're not messing around, and that this is a gritty game. But I think you're nerfing that somewhat by pre-planning things. You're setting the game up where, to continue the story, character X must die. There is no if here, and that rubs me the wrong way.
Instead of giving only one character a reason to be whacked by the Bad Guys, give every character a similar reason to be whacked by the Bad Guys. Then run the scene, and have the dice fall where they will. As it seems like the progression of the story (and therefore game) hinges on one of the PCs dying, stack the odds against the players. Make it a really tough encounter so that, by the numbers, one PC should die. Don't fudge things though, roll it out to see what happens, and if they somehow survive, then make sure you have a back up plan.
If the players watch a PC die and then figure out "Hey, the Bad Guys killed that PC because they knew too much about Thing X" and then realize "Uh oh. My PC also knows too much about Thing X" then it'll get them worried. Which will (hopefully) give them more of an investment in the story.
If you want the death of a PC to really hook the players, set hooks in every PC so that when one of them dies, everyone at the table goes "Oh shit! that could've been me!"
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Post by bradscott on Dec 2, 2013 23:22:18 GMT -8
Yeah you are absolutely correct, there is no "if" hence I ask the question rather then just going for it.
We are talking about a character that is little more then a plot hook, almost as much as the dead body the game starts at.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Dec 3, 2013 0:22:44 GMT -8
I think I would make this character an NPC - and kill him in the opening scene setting.
*noir voice* "You're senoir detective is picking through the scene, sporadically stopping to scribble some shorthand into his notebook. He rifles through the vic's pockets, finds nothing. He seems deep in thought. Suddenly he seems as if he has realised something, he starts frantically flipping back through his notes - he seems to find the page he wanted and pulls out his cell phone. As he puts it to his ear, a single, loud gunshot is heard, and chunks of his skull, blood and brain matter ruin your freshly pressed suit. You hear a distant car peeling out.
WHAT DO YOU DO"
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Post by guitarspider on Dec 3, 2013 0:39:21 GMT -8
If it's meditated PC-murder without variables I'd say just kill an NPC instead and start the game during the shooting. Hit the PCs hard as well, so they're not immediately sure it wasn't them who were supposed to be shot, so there's a sense of threat and you hide your intent a little. Possibly have the baddies keep up the charade by sending little threats.
I'd feel kind of weird having a character taken away from me seconds after the game starts, particularly if I knew or guessed I had no chance. The way you describe rolling behind the screen and such, that's just going to look bad imho, mostly because it's going to be fairly clear that that death was supposed to happen. It's probably not going to cause a sense of loss, but I do think it might well cause a sense of irritation, particularly because your player is just trying to get into character and a few seconds later he's supposed to start all over because of a "roll" behind your screen, meh. Of course it depends on your players as well, but I do think this might be risky in a con-game where you don't know your players at all.
It's a bit different if you tell them up front, but then again I don't quite see how that's better than just killing an NPC?
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Post by Arcona on Dec 3, 2013 2:09:57 GMT -8
Either make it an NPC or give warning to the player.
Sure he is not attached but being killed in the opening scene would feel a bit weird for me. I mean character death is always possible and pulling your punches robs the players of a sense of danger in the game but killing him in the first 20 minutes of a game by no fault of his own will make you seem like a killer GM in their eyes.
If the player is warned ('hey this character is a plot device, it will most likely die and I have another one ready for you to jump right in. Please go along with it') it makes him more at ease and he can embrace the role easier.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Dec 3, 2013 8:14:45 GMT -8
What happens if it backfires and the PC manages to "win" ? I dont think you mentioned system but it was the question that came to my mind.
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Post by ayslyn on Dec 3, 2013 10:12:39 GMT -8
The way you describe rolling behind the screen and such, that's just going to look bad imho, mostly because it's going to be fairly clear that that death was supposed to happen. Not really. A huge contingent of GMs roll their dice behind the screen, and never let their players see them. At a completely unscientific, gut-reaction guess, I would say it's at worst a 50/50 split between open and hidden rolling styles.
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Post by guitarspider on Dec 3, 2013 10:56:42 GMT -8
The way you describe rolling behind the screen and such, that's just going to look bad imho, mostly because it's going to be fairly clear that that death was supposed to happen. Not really. A huge contingent of GMs roll their dice behind the screen, and never let their players see them. At a completely unscientific, gut-reaction guess, I would say it's at worst a 50/50 split between open and hidden rolling styles. Sorry, but to me this situation looks weird if the GM rolls behind the screen. First of all, the drive-by is obviously the GM's planned set-up. Second, player character dies. Clearly that was at least a possibility in the GM's mind, ok, maybe he made the situation tough to scare us and it just happened to turn out badly? Third, it all happens behind the screen, which means you as a player have zero idea if the GM just killed you to get the setup he wanted or if this really was the outcome and now he's rolling with it. Let's say we trust our GM. But look, the rest of the game turns all around your killed PC and you wouldn't have had a session if that PC hadn't died, what a coincidence then... It just looks bad. More so if you're at a con and probably playing with people you don't know (well). Are you sure they are going to take it well and the atmosphere at the table is not going to suffer? It's entirely possible your group won't mind, but personally, I'd be bothered by that course of events. I wouldn't make a fuss about it, but I'd feel like the GM just killed one of us players for no other reason than to get what ~he~ wanted. That's not going to improve my experience at the table to say the least. To my mind you got to do this in the open, with an open mind, or not at all: roll so the players can see and be able to roll with any of the outcomes. If you don't want to, just kill an NPC and move on.
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Post by ayslyn on Dec 3, 2013 11:23:45 GMT -8
I'm not saying it's a good idea, necessarily, or that other things couldn't make it look "fishy". Just that rolling behind the screen wouldn't be the red flag. That's a perfectly normal thing so...
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Post by bradscott on Dec 3, 2013 16:46:10 GMT -8
What happens if it backfires and the PC manages to "win" ? I dont think you mentioned system but it was the question that came to my mind. The First combat action will be the aimed gunshot that hits the PI in the heart, even if the PC's manage to somehow take down the gun man and driver, the PI still dies.
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Post by bradscott on Dec 3, 2013 16:54:44 GMT -8
Playing a devils advocate to the its looks fishy line of thinking,
Does it really look any less fishy if its an NPC who dies? Should NPC's not be bound by the same game mechanics as PC's? IS it ok to fudge dice rolls or skip them all together to have an NPC die but not ok for a PC?
But in saying that I think I agree, it has to be either an NPC or at the least a forwarned player/plant
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Dec 3, 2013 17:10:34 GMT -8
If an NPC dies of a fatal dose of being run over by the plot train that is kind of still not grate but it dos not chafe as much as it happening to a PC. At least not in my mind, as long as the npc in question is not so close bound to the pc that he could be considered to be in the PC aura.
bradscott - at that point why bother with the pretense, i promise you it will have as much impact as if you sat there and just told them. It might have less impact or at least have side effects if you plot bunny ambush a PC even if he is then given another pc it would still feel kind of ... ..well is this really the foot you want to start off a game one? Yes its a con game and more railroading is accepted even needed but maybe not in there face on the first date you know?
The out right ignoring/pretense of you even play pretend following any rules in the situation leaves me with more of a bad taste then just not at all. Thats at least honest.
And yes GM fortresses/screens are bs in my opinion dice are rolled on the table open they fall as they might. So color the above in that opinion i guess.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Dec 3, 2013 17:22:19 GMT -8
I think we're at the point where if this character's death must happen, then just make it an NPC and narrate it as the opening scene.
Rolling behind the screen to make the event appear random leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well. And I don't really see any benefit to making the character who dies a PC, if there is no way they can stop it, and only that one character can (and will) die.
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Post by bradscott on Dec 3, 2013 17:51:49 GMT -8
Yeah I think at the end of the day if its an NPC who dies the only thing that can "go wrong" is that the player work out the death is more then just a random occurrence, which it is and they will find that out anyway.
If its a PC then there are so many things that can go wrong, bad taste in the players mouths, get off on the wrong foot etc.
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