HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Aug 3, 2014 16:29:41 GMT -8
A female Thor! A black Captain America! A straight Constantine! This episode has it all true believers, except Asians. Would an Asian Hulk get mentioned on the View? In this episode, we discuss the recent examples of inclusiveness in comic books and games as well as whether or not you should try to make your games more inclusive. Like everyone else, we forget that Captain Marvel, a black woman, led the Avengers in the eighties and that the previous leader had been Wasp, another woman. Lyal even had those issues. The article by we mention by neongrey titled D&D, Inclusivity, and Why I’m not Buying the New Edition can be found at the link above.
Duration - 1:14:23 Idle Red Hands Blog postDirect Download
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Post by heavymetaljess on Sept 3, 2014 7:34:09 GMT -8
I don't think a gimmick is necessarily a bad thing. It's a way to target a larger part of the fan base. Yes, it creates more sales and brings in more money, but it also helps to maintain marginalized parts of the reader base (non-white ethnicities, other genders, and other sexualities, etc.). I definitely agree that those changes should play into the story. It's just a fine line so if the writer doesn't share that ethnicity or gender or sexuality they tend to stay away from it to prevent offending people.
I'm not a comic book reader, but I make exceptions for things that really resonate with me: Tank Girl and Sandman. Both have strong female characters based visually on a subculture I identify with.
On the point about the article posted: non-binary gender wording is changing so fast that cisgendered people are REALLY having a hard time keeping up - even allies. They aren't exposed to this new wording the way people involved in building the vocabulary are and that puts them way behind. Wizards probably should have checked with someone who could advise, but they tried really hard and made the same mistakes that major news networks with trans allies also made.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Sept 10, 2014 19:30:02 GMT -8
Thanks for listening heavymetaljess, and sorry it took me so long to comment. I agree that gimmicks aren't necessarily a bad thing; they're intended to make people sit up and take notice. Changing the gender or ethnicity of a well known character is a good example. I'm not a comic book person either, but it seems like all the major shakeups I've heard comic book fans talk about in the past, always get "fixed". Either by making things a dream, putting them in an alternate reality, or any number of other (sometimes cheesy) methods. That's what's bugging me. Based on my limited past experience, I feel that the female Thor and black Captain America are going to be temporary things. They'll run for a few months, and then things will be put back to normal. The fact that the original Thor is still around (and is just incapable of wielding Mjolner) doesn't do anything to make me think this won't be the case. If there was more assurance that these changes would be permanent, I'd be less critical. I dont know if they did, but I hope WotC consulted with people in the non-binary gender community to write that clause. As a cis, hetero, (mostly) white male, I don't feel I have any right to say what is or isn't acceptable or offensive to groups that I'm not a part of. My big issue is with people who do. Other cis, hetero, white males don't get to say whether the wording goes too far or isn't good enough.
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Post by heavymetaljess on Sept 11, 2014 4:58:57 GMT -8
Based on my limited past experience, I feel that the female Thor and black Captain America are going to be temporary things. ... If there was more assurance that these changes would be permanent, I'd be less critical. I couldn't agree more. That would be crappy. I dont know if they did, but I hope WotC consulted with people in the non-binary gender community to write that clause. As a cis, hetero, (mostly) white male, I don't feel I have any right to say what is or isn't acceptable or offensive to groups that I'm not a part of. My big issue is with people who do. Other cis, hetero, white males don't get to say whether the wording goes too far or isn't good enough. From the many responses I've read, it would seem Wizards had a "two steps forward, one step back" situation with this inclusion. That's still a step forward in my book and I'm sure they've learned a lot from the feed back they've received.
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tomes
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Post by tomes on Sept 11, 2014 8:27:40 GMT -8
Funny just reading this after perusing the 5E PH at the bookstore a few days ago. I was particularly impressed with the multi-racial images (if a little stereotypically in some manners, every once in a while). Just good to see a book reach out to the various real-world audiences (as opposed to the usual european-style midieval look). Case in point: Just watched Hobbit 2 with Nova, and a few days later her 5-year old mind mentioned how there was a lack of girls in the movie. My response was simple, "that's true." It is. But it's nice that the PH and D&D 5E don't perpetuate that this is the norm, and seem to do as much as possible to not. This isn't to say that so many other games do the right thing, but D&D is huge and owned by large corporate, so for them to similarly push in this direction is great (vs. just being silent on the matter). Also, not saying they're doing anything that Pathfinder and others have done, but it's good we're all on the same page here.
To me, their gender and sexual orientation wording probably could've been better (and I applaud your attempt to improve, @hyvemind), but it could also just as easily be something that in 2 years time would seem inappropriate, or rude, or ?
Sure, it'd be nice if you didn't have to make such statements at all, and it was just implied due to the non-gendered rules of the system, however in this particular time, I'll take that as a statement of support and inclusion.
And mostly, I'm thinking of all the various YOUNG kids reading this as the rules of the system (not the older 40-somethings), and that's a good thing.
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