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Post by jazzisblues on Aug 23, 2014 19:11:20 GMT -8
Savage Worlds - There is a long answer, but in short no a few of the members of the group me included dislike it for being to samy. As for what kind of sci fi, well its still a bit up in the air but the direction of the talk has been going to something of a small group possibly military in nature but not as normal soldiers. To large part the problem is its still some what up in the air since we kind of tripped all over a question of system I would be interested to hear why they label SW as "samy." I've heard this from other people and so far it's boiled down to being that SW doesn't have a Vancian magic system and therefore doesn't have the same "robust magic system" that D&D has. I'm not going to argue the point here, I want to hear why they hold that opinion, and how they formed it. Cheers, JiB
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on Aug 24, 2014 3:05:07 GMT -8
Honestly its not the magic system. The game I tried running in SW was this conan like fantasy world so we only had 1 wizard and he was not the problem. The problem was that something like 1h into the game the 4 other people discovered and pointed out that they literally had the same character on paper. There was no noticeable difference except for the names I don’t mind the system it self, as a dm I think its easy to run but as a player it drives me up the fucking wall because I am the kind of guy who likes to tinker with the system and have it represent my character as much as I can make it do. And I will go to silly lengths to do that in Pathfinder, Gurps is a lot easier that way. SW… I feel like I am trying to paint with my feet, I know I could do better and I get frustrated. And if somebody tells me I can describe a “bolt” power any way I like I will choke them trough the internet
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Post by SavageCheerleader on Aug 24, 2014 7:33:06 GMT -8
Honestly its not the magic system. The game I tried running in SW was this conan like fantasy world so we only had 1 wizard and he was not the problem. The problem was that something like 1h into the game the 4 other people discovered and pointed out that they literally had the same character on paper. There was no noticeable difference except for the names I don’t mind the system it self, as a dm I think its easy to run but as a player it drives me up the fucking wall because I am the kind of guy who likes to tinker with the system and have it represent my character as much as I can make it do. And I will go to silly lengths to do that in Pathfinder, Gurps is a lot easier that way. SW… I feel like I am trying to paint with my feet, I know I could do better and I get frustrated. And if somebody tells me I can describe a “bolt” power any way I like I will choke them trough the internet Can you upload the PC sheets? I find it difficult to believe they made the same exact PC four times, much less there is no noticeable difference between them; sounds like the players lack(ed) and understanding of the system or, at worst, serious imagination in character design. The major tenet of SW is that it does not tell you how to make the setting come alive, it simply gives you the mechanical results...all of the rest is up to the GM and Players. GURPS, FATE, and Ubiquity (and now Cortex+ via the Hacker's Guide) are no different. And trappings are incredibly important if a player wants to own their PC. Fireball and Icestorm, Burning Hands and Acid Spray are the same thing mechanically. Area damage with trapping effects. It works both ways. I feel like a group of SW GMs have covered this topic....repeatedly at this point....somewhere... SW Mythconceptionsbooyah-kashah!
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newyorkjoe
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 16
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, Palladium, BRP, 0e/1e
Favorite Species of Monkey: undecided
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Post by newyorkjoe on Aug 24, 2014 7:43:25 GMT -8
We are probably going off topic and should start a new thread, but regarding Savage Worlds as samy...
I think it comes every roll having the same basic mechanic and bonus. However, this is what the game intends to do. Every game system is a simplified model. The Savage Worlds system is a model focused on pulp action, such as Indiana Jones or Buck Rogers. The pulp genre is usually a lot of action mixed in with a little of something else, maybe magic or horror. Savage Worlds does pulp very well, and as such, it can do science fiction action very well. However, other systems try to capture different concepts.
GURPS - realism HERO - superhero adventure Call of Chthulhu - horror where the party will lose d20 - romantic fantasy adventure novel style (think Tolkien, Jack Vance, Michael Moorcock) Battletech - giant robot miniature combat Vampire Story Teller System by White Wolf - interpersonal character struggle FATE - collaborative story telling adventures Gumshoe - sleuth investigation
and the list goes on
All these systems are successful at doing what they do, and tend to drop-off the more you try to push them to do something else.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on Aug 24, 2014 9:44:12 GMT -8
SavageCheerleader, another part of SW i dislike is the way the fans come out of the woodwork to criticise you if you dare not like it.
No i dont have the sheets, it was a year ago or so.
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Post by SavageCheerleader on Aug 24, 2014 11:00:59 GMT -8
SavageCheerleader, another part of SW i dislike is the way the fans come out of the woodwork to criticise you if you dare not like it. No i dont have the sheets, it was a year ago or so. You normally only see that because we tend to call people out for talking out of their asses about the system; when you get some of the basic tenets incorrect or dismiss it as "samey", expect criticism.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Aug 24, 2014 12:04:48 GMT -8
Yeah Daniel looks like you want a pretty intricately detailed (by the rules) system. Whereas SW for me is about creating simple characters that leave room for complex narrative embellishment. But I've been wrong before...once.
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on Aug 24, 2014 13:01:33 GMT -8
savagecheerleader: Case, point goodbye @d.T. Pints: It is mostly the kind of systems i do like, ones that help me flesh out characters either in a narrative (Fate, though i think the argument has also been made that fate is a some what crunchy system) or a mechanical way (Pathfinder, Gurps)
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Post by shadrack on Aug 25, 2014 11:05:36 GMT -8
I may have missed it, but what 'feel' are you looking for?
examples that come to mind: pulpy - buck rogers hard sci-fi - Leviathan Wakes (James S. A. Corey) space opera - Star Wars Firefly esque group just trying to make it out in the black Guardians of the Galaxy style big damn heroes... with some issues. other examples that come to your mind:
As far as you and your group's preference for system: You mention at one point that you are all more "mechanically-inclined" which would point me in the Eclipse Phase (creative commons, it's free, there is an excel character builder too!, or a lifepath generator!) or GURPS (take my words with caution, no first hand experience with GURPS) direction.
The argument has been made (by Tappy) that FATE is crunchy. It does have several sci-fi incarnations, but the core rules are pay-what-you-want (even $0.00). As far as settings, Bulldogs is more pulpy, Nova Praxis is more mid line (can be gritty - more crunchy as well), and Diaspora is hard sci-fi, but none of those are free.
(not touching the savage worlds bit)
In closing, you also mentioned that you would only be playing for a few hours once a week. In this case, you probably want to make a point to avoid systems where combat takes a long time.
hope this is helpful.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Aug 25, 2014 11:13:07 GMT -8
There was no noticeable difference except for the names I am going to say it: Whatever your system, it matters secondary to how your players choose to interact with it/you.
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