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Post by Kainguru on Jul 13, 2015 1:41:57 GMT -8
I like the sound of the 5e magic system, minus the cantrip issues I have. I'm not sure what truly Vancian Magic would be, since I read those books and I could not find the part where they forgot their spells after casting them, even when I specifically looked for it. Mostly they just conveniently needed them once each, and then later it's just... whatever. And there's always aliens, demons, and ancient super-science. I think the most Vancian thing would be to allow every character to use his or her dying breath to utter a single curse. You're quite right - I think the term Vancian is a misnomer, given the books. Gary Gygax himself gave his magic system the descriptor 'Vancian' but he did say it in the context of being 'closest to the Dying Earth style of magic' compared to LOTR or Elric. This being that spell casters have to study 'spell' books to learn spells rather than, as is implied in LOTR, drawing on some innate power or using ancient knowledge to 'weave an effect' from 'words of power' or, as in Elric, from pacts with extra planar/elemental beings. Note that in 5e the new Warlock class is very much in the tradition of Elric's Melnibonean magic. Aaron
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Post by jazzisblues on Jul 13, 2015 17:57:58 GMT -8
After many years away from the D&D fold (haven't played it since 2e), I'm considering returning. I was never really a fan of the Vancian system of magic (spells are memorized and used like bullets in a gun - one shot and it's gone forever). From what I've read of D&D 4e & 5e, the magic system seems to work an awful lot like MMO powers. If I wanted that I would just go play GW2... I'd prefer something that was more manna powered. Anyone have suggestions on how to hack 4e / 5e to provide manna powered magic, or a suggestion on a system that does this already? there are actually a multitude of systems that one could use to create a mana based system, but if you want absolute power to create the magic system of your dreams, then you want either GURPS or Hero System. JiB
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Post by Probie Tim on Jul 14, 2015 6:37:46 GMT -8
there are actually a multitude of systems that one could use to create a mana based system I think... doesn't the D&D 5E DMG have a spell-point option in the back? I think I remember reading something like that. Anyone got the books handy to verify that?
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Post by archmagezemoc on Jul 14, 2015 11:17:39 GMT -8
there are actually a multitude of systems that one could use to create a mana based system I think... doesn't the D&D 5E DMG have a spell-point option in the back? I think I remember reading something like that. Anyone got the books handy to verify that? Pg.288 under "Modifying a Class -> Variant: Spell Points"
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Post by stanleytweedle on Jan 8, 2018 12:11:31 GMT -8
For posterity:
I did eventually find the passage in Mazirian the Magician where he seems to have run out of spells. It's when he's being strangled by his mindless vat-creature.
And to give this post a little more weight, I'll say that my favorite magic systems involve a push-your-luck type mechanic where there's a risk of something awful and/or disgusting happening.
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Post by ericfromnj on Jan 8, 2018 12:19:33 GMT -8
The Savage Worlds magic system does what you are asking. There is a threat of things going sideways.
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lightningcat
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 29
Currently Playing: Pathfinder, D&D 4e
Currently Running: Transformers, Pathfinder
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Post by lightningcat on Jan 8, 2018 17:57:46 GMT -8
I am going to defend Vancian magic. At its best, it allows the character to line up spells much like he would gear. Which makes perfect sense to wargamers, especially those that play the older wargames. It took 15 year old me about 10 minutes to figure out how Vancian magic worked, and had not played any wargame or other RPG, but I had played Magic: the Gathering. Which uses a similar fire and forget system. For pure game reasons, Vancian magic is simple to track and easy to use. For narritive stories, Vancian magic raises more questions then answers for most people. Although I always thought of it as tying a knot of magic, and the casting of the spell was pulling the string to untie the knot. Which made much more sense when it took 10 minutes per spell level to memorize spells. Epic level casters could take days just to get ready.
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