mrcj
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 173
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Post by mrcj on Jan 16, 2015 7:46:41 GMT -8
A note about he player who chose the "cadre" advantage and broke the game.
If the society that the players were in valued personal valor, then the GM needed to make sure that the cadre player felt the weight of that prejudice.
I'd suggest three things or that specific situation: 1. Without any kind of point bonus all the NPC consider the player a coward and treat him as such, denying him opportunities to marry, have business, or lead and other important actions. 2. Introduce societal mechanics to strip the cadre away, such as being challenged to a dual. 3. Guys who are untouchable because of their followers or are too low to face in combat become the target of assassins
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jan 17, 2015 2:42:22 GMT -8
Re David from Michigan and linear scenario design. The jackers are right of course about the style of GMing having more of an effect on railroady-ness or otherwise than the shape of the source scenario. But I won't to pick David up on his choice of locations (a, b c, etc) as scenes. The advantage of any form of linearity in storytelling is emotional engagement. There's a thing called the Narrative Paradox which is effectively "the more interactive a story is the less engaging it is". That's arguable of course - and refers more to the mindless interactivity of computer games and Internet surfing than the GM mediated experience of RPGs.
But what makes a story linear isn't location but revelation. Here's Cohen and Shires on the subject:
kernels: these are often referred to as the ‘‘skeleton’’ of a story and are events that raise the possibility of succeeding or alternative events. Kernels initiate, increase, or conclude an uncertainty and hence advance or outline a sequence of transformations in the story. Kernels cannot be removed, reordered, or replaced without significantly changing the sequence of events
satellites: these facilitate kernels by amplifying or filling-in the outline of a sequence of events by maintaining, retarding, or prolonging the kernel events. Satellites can be omitted, reordered, or replaced by other satellites without revis- ing the sequence of events (Cohan & Shires, 1988, pp. 54-55)
Using that terminology, the GM has control over when during the session each "kernel" is encountered but where it is encountered is entirely up to the players. So if you attach a kernel to a location as a GM you re doing yourself a disservice. If the players choose not to go to the palace and only the king can reveal the kernel, then the King has to go to the players.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Jan 18, 2015 2:44:30 GMT -8
And then on the "Rogue Trader problem": "with great power comes great responsibility"
I can't speak to Rogue Trader, but I do know SoIaF. Characters are part of a Household, and very likely hold some status within that household. So all the PCs are likely to have men (and or women) they can order around. But at the same time, the PCs also get ordered around, if not by the head of their house, then by the household to which their house are bannermen, or his they are a great house, then King.
The mechanics of the Cadre "Quality" are only used in mass combat. It doesn't necessarily mean that the PC has ten men following them around all the time. It doesn't mean they don't either - remember how Jamie Lannister always had a group of Gold-cloaks following him - until of course he ended up a prisoner of the Starks. But in fact any PC can call on the resources of his house, if pursuing his house's goals. My character, Marko Salt of the Dornish House Orka, recruited a bunch of retired pirates (now affectionately known by our GM as the "Old Salts") to help out with a raid on an enemy's fleet. The challenges of people in authority are bigger than mere dungeon crawls, I had to take out that fleet while my fellow players besieged a castle. OF COURSE we needed men-at-arms.
We're not murder-hobos any more.
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Post by HourEleven on Jan 18, 2015 9:47:35 GMT -8
Kainguru Exactly! The famously good modules were toolkits, the famously bad ones were hallways. Fuck, Keep on the Borderlands was such a huge deal because it was a developed town, a multidungeon complex, numerous factions and a mess of plot hooks for the GM to develop. One hundred GMs could run that module and never have two campaigns be the same. Good stuff is good, shit stuff is shit.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 20, 2015 6:38:43 GMT -8
And Dragonlance modules were whatever is shittier than shit.
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Post by mook on Jan 20, 2015 7:02:11 GMT -8
The fact that the products that sell the most are always the ones decried for having the worst quality does not bode well for the species!
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Post by uselesstriviaman on Jan 20, 2015 10:44:01 GMT -8
And Dragonlance modules were whatever is shittier than shit. As a young gamer, I thought they were the absolute shit. I own the entire 16-module set. I only ever tried to play 'em once; everyone was totally bored before the end of the first session. However, they do have a huge pile of gorgeous maps and locations that can be recycled for use elsewhere, so they weren't a total waste of my money.
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Post by Kainguru on Jan 20, 2015 13:17:06 GMT -8
And Dragonlance modules were whatever is shittier than shit. As a young gamer, I thought they were the absolute shit. I own the entire 16-module set. I only ever tried to play 'em once; everyone was totally bored before the end of the first session. However, they do have a huge pile of gorgeous maps and locations that can be recycled for use elsewhere, so they weren't a total waste of my money. It was their maps and Elmore art that made them desirable . . . like a dime store sweet that's actually a chocolate coated maggot (when you don't know that there's a maggot in the middle) . . . BTW - Fuck Kender!!!! <ducks> Aaron
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Post by uselesstriviaman on Jan 20, 2015 18:16:23 GMT -8
Oh, I so totally agree. Fuck kender right in their "handling" goat asses.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 21, 2015 6:57:29 GMT -8
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jan 21, 2015 7:09:49 GMT -8
By the by...thanks stork for thinking of me with regards to getting a gaming group out of wearing the Happy Jacks shirt. We are into our fifth session of Star Wars Edge of the Empire and I have to say that system is very friendly to those new to the hobby. Those silly symbol dice are so quick to pick up and the adding of a difficulty dice is such direct a way to show how a game situation just became more challenging. The group is two guys and two girls and with a pack of Les Mis cast folks as a pool their role playing is pretty ridiculous. Lots of fun! So wear those shirts ladies and gents; they make for excellent trolling material. (This usage of trolling is of course the 'fishing' reference) and I in no way wish to encourage.. Again I fucking love the internet.
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Post by Bill Roper on Jan 22, 2015 12:36:22 GMT -8
TROOOOOOOOOLL!
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Post by ayslyn on Jan 22, 2015 20:51:24 GMT -8
Once ya go Troll, mon, ya nevah gonna re-roll.
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Post by henryhankovitch on Jan 23, 2015 19:12:21 GMT -8
Rogue Trader is a bit odd in that it gives the PCs a huge ship and thousands of followers; but the rules seem to assume that they'll still play like Starfleet officers, beaming the bridge crew down to handle things themselves. So much of the ruleset focuses on the PCs' personal combat skills and abilities, rather than abstracted social mechanisms.
One thing to do is remember that in the 40k universe, technical competence is a relatively rare thing. Your ship is maintained by a fanatically secretive cult, and you need a psychic wizard to guide the ship through Space Hell for FTL travel. Most of your crew are ignorant wretches that live in a regime of rum, sodomy and the lash. They aren't capable of, and can't be trusted with, most truly important tasks. You want Kurt Deckswabbenz to be the first person to come across that uncanny alien artifact? Bad idea.
Also, the PCs' operation of the ship can also be a great source of role play and conflict. Who are the NPCs that the PCs will deal with regularly? The grizzled chief bosun, the lead press-gang slaver, the Network Administratum Cogitatus, the senior accountant, or the tribal chieftain of the cooling-duct maintenance clan? Endless possibilities. If the players send hundreds of their troopers off to be horrifically slaughtered, then their company commander may have a rather negative reaction...
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