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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 5:06:25 GMT -8
Yeah, you clearly do not understand the setting. No army of peasants, no matter their pitiful training, stands a chance compared to a great clan. As a hint, peasants start with a 1 in all their rings. Not to mention the clans all have their own groups of ashigaru, some whose families have served for generations. The great clans also have more to offer most ronin, aka Koku and prestige. Not to mention that the iron daimyo is upsetting the celestial order, which means even lowly ronin are likely to turn their nose up at him. His crime is treason, against the Emperor. There is literally nothing worse you can do. And you're sounding the exactly the sort of setting lawyer that put me off of L5R for so long. Just because an army mostly made up of peasants is probably doomed to failure does not mean that they're not possible. There are references to them in the canon ( l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Yogo_Rebellion, l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Revolutionaries ) so why not go ahead and have another one. I'd also argue that plenty of samurai, ronin or not, could be tempted to serve in the a rebellion simply because most of them aren't paragons of bushido. After all if samurai never screwed up there would never be any ronin. Treason against the Emperor has happened plenty within the canon, both by individuals and entire clans. The setting presented in the book spins an idealised view of what a samurai should be, for me the interesting part is in playing characters striving but failing to live up to that strict code.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 20, 2015 5:43:53 GMT -8
Yeah, you clearly do not understand the setting. No army of peasants, no matter their pitiful training, stands a chance compared to a great clan. As a hint, peasants start with a 1 in all their rings. Not to mention the clans all have their own groups of ashigaru, some whose families have served for generations. The great clans also have more to offer most ronin, aka Koku and prestige. Not to mention that the iron daimyo is upsetting the celestial order, which means even lowly ronin are likely to turn their nose up at him. His crime is treason, against the Emperor. There is literally nothing worse you can do. And you're sounding the exactly the sort of setting lawyer that put me off of L5R for so long. Just because an army mostly made up of peasants is probably doomed to failure does not mean that they're not possible. There are references to them in the canon ( l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Yogo_Rebellion, l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Revolutionaries ) so why not go ahead and have another one. I'd also argue that plenty of samurai, ronin or not, could be tempted to serve in the a rebellion simply because most of them aren't paragons of bushido. After all if samurai never screwed up there would never be any ronin. Treason against the Emperor has happened plenty within the canon, both by individuals and entire clans. The setting presented in the book spins an idealised view of what a samurai should be, for me the interesting part is in playing characters striving but failing to live up to that strict code. But the setting is that harsh, whodo, stevensw. Rokugan is a strict and inflexible society with a rigid social order; it states as much in the setting books and in the wiki, but that doesn't mean that characters/NPC's can't act in the way that they want; it's just that there are social and spiritual penalties associated with doing so if their actions aren't in keeping with society's rules. Obviously different Clans have different views on Bushido and how to act as a samurai, but every single person regardless of station knows the Celestial Order and their place in it. Peasant revolts do happen (rarely), and when they do, they are offensive to the samurai caste as a violation of that Celestial Order and ruthlessly quashed. I'd argue that is what would make the Iron Daimyo so dangerous; he (or she) is trying to subvert that natural order of things, which is blasphemous and therefore extremely offensive. However, there are always those who would join such a cause (the Kolat have been around for centuries, after all), but in joining the Iron Daimyo they by implication accept that they are acting outside of society and that there will be consequences, if not in Ningen-Do, then definitely when they are judged by Emma-O after they die.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2015 19:52:16 GMT -8
Yeah, you clearly do not understand the setting. No army of peasants, no matter their pitiful training, stands a chance compared to a great clan. As a hint, peasants start with a 1 in all their rings. Not to mention the clans all have their own groups of ashigaru, some whose families have served for generations. The great clans also have more to offer most ronin, aka Koku and prestige. Not to mention that the iron daimyo is upsetting the celestial order, which means even lowly ronin are likely to turn their nose up at him. His crime is treason, against the Emperor. There is literally nothing worse you can do. And you're sounding the exactly the sort of setting lawyer that put me off of L5R for so long. Just because an army mostly made up of peasants is probably doomed to failure does not mean that they're not possible. There are references to them in the canon ( l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Yogo_Rebellion, l5r.wikia.com/wiki/Revolutionaries ) so why not go ahead and have another one. I'd also argue that plenty of samurai, ronin or not, could be tempted to serve in the a rebellion simply because most of them aren't paragons of bushido. After all if samurai never screwed up there would never be any ronin. Treason against the Emperor has happened plenty within the canon, both by individuals and entire clans. The setting presented in the book spins an idealised view of what a samurai should be, for me the interesting part is in playing characters striving but failing to live up to that strict code. Again, you keep pointing out that you do no understand the setting. Ronin are samurai without a lord. Not all of them have no lord because of some screw up on their part. If your Lord dies and you can't find a new one to take you on, now you are ronin. This is the case with most vassal families who end up drying up a few generations later. Then of course you have the samurai who lose their position due to the actions of others, such as when the entire Akodo family was removed from the lion clan (they had to marry into other families or become ronin till they were restored later). And none of this is even accounting for the fact that your army of peasants has to be armed, fed, and sheltered on someone dime. More importantly, your remote region probably can't grow enough food to feed this army. So what do the great clans have to do but let you starve yourself? Armies are expensive, I hope your Iron Daimyo has the economic power to play with the big boys.
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Post by The Northman on Oct 24, 2015 23:39:07 GMT -8
He's already pointed out several instances of peasant revolts in the setting, not to mention the fact that it happened in Japan's actual history.Fairly certain that step one in most feudal revolts is "Do not send food to Lord - Keep food to eat instead." On the notion of other proper samurai joining, though, I kinda have to agree. The whole point is that even if they aren't perfect in their adherence to Bushido, they're trying. It's a religion as much as a set of rules, and Rokugan is basically populated with fundamentalists and fanatics as far as that's concerned. Now...a rival clan using or backing the peasant revolt as a way to gain some land and influence would be a great bit of drama.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 2:00:33 GMT -8
Rokugan is not Japan. It is roughly based on it and Asia at large (Dragon clan has Korean influences, etc).
My point isn't that they don't happen ever, but that they are pointless. It's like a child throwing a tantrum. The samurai cast are like the adults, and even if a whole daycare center full of kids and their staff revolts the parents will show up and put a stop to it. I know in one instance of the peasant revolts he mentioned, other peasants were the ones to put it down. The samurai didn't even have to mobilize themselves.
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G.I. Joe
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Post by G.I. Joe on Oct 28, 2015 7:24:24 GMT -8
Rokugan is not Japan. It is roughly based on it and Asia at large (Dragon clan has Korean influences, etc). My point isn't that they don't happen ever, but that they are pointless. It's like a child throwing a tantrum. The samurai cast are like the adults, and even if a whole daycare center full of kids and their staff revolts the parents will show up and put a stop to it. I know in one instance of the peasant revolts he mentioned, other peasants were the ones to put it down. The samurai didn't even have to mobilize themselves. Who cares if it is doomed to failure? The point of the Iron Daimyo is to provide a good starting point for the players and GM to build upon the world. And who knows, maybe the local lord has actually been killed and there is an imposter taking his place (such as a bog hag if going the shadowlands route). Or it just so happens that everytime the wagons are transporting the grain to the local lord's estate/his lord's town, they get attacked by bandits, or every other time, or just frequently. Then it is not on the peasants but the lord; no one would even know that the grain was being used to feed a hidden army in the woods. So the PC's are sent in to investigate this "simple bandit incident;" but the bandit attacks only scratch the surface of what is going on in this region. Also, some points to consider: no one thought that the Taint could be reigned in, but it was by Daigotsu. No one thought that the Spider would become accepted as a Great Clan, but they were. And it certainly went against tradition when the Empress sent the Mantis and Spider to what is now the Colonies. Speaking of the Mantis, it was probably believed that the grouping of minor clans now known as the Manits would never become a Great Clan, but they obviously did. The impossible can happen in Rokugon. Not saying that a peasant revolt would be successful in the long run, but if it starts to succeed; maybe other discontent peasants will think about rising up too. Plus with the use of more and more Ashigaru by the armies of the Clans, the peasants now have the knowlegde to defend themselves. I'm reminded of the flavor text of "Veteran's Farmland" Card from the L5R CCG: Ashigaru who return to their farmlands are changed by the wars they've fought. They are wiser, stronger, more willful, and, most importantly, respected. They can protect their own lands. It is often better for samurai that such farmers die in battle. Just some thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 17:55:02 GMT -8
Except you forgot the part where they disarm most returning ashigaru of weapons and armor. So that revolution has to be held with farm tools. The ONLY clan who allows their peasants weapons is the crab, so they can fend off invaders from the shadowlands.
I suppose you are right in that people do stupid things doomed to failure and it could fall to the PC's to lead the army that squashes him like a bug. Unless your iron daimyo has so kind of special magical powers (like daigotsu) the outcome would be a known, which would ruin it for me as a player. "Sauron is kicking up another war, but Gondor will squash him like a bug, so lets just sit on the sidelines with popcorn." Much less exciting then a tenuous war with an unknown outcome over the fate of the whole empire.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 28, 2015 20:44:56 GMT -8
It sounds like fun, who cares if it doesn't follow canon?
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G.I. Joe
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Post by G.I. Joe on Oct 31, 2015 14:32:51 GMT -8
Except you forgot the part where they disarm most returning ashigaru of weapons and armor. So that revolution has to be held with farm tools. The ONLY clan who allows their peasants weapons is the crab, so they can fend off invaders from the shadowlands. I suppose you are right in that people do stupid things doomed to failure and it could fall to the PC's to lead the army that squashes him like a bug. Unless your iron daimyo has so kind of special magical powers (like daigotsu) the outcome would be a known, which would ruin it for me as a player. "Sauron is kicking up another war, but Gondor will squash him like a bug, so lets just sit on the sidelines with popcorn." Much less exciting then a tenuous war with an unknown outcome over the fate of the whole empire. That's why I suggested making the Iron Daimyo a shadowlands creature who is corrupting his followers with promises of keeping their faamilies safe. And why would they bother with sending a whole army to deal with a bunch of peasants? Also, there are only rumors of it happening. The investigation that the PC's conduct doesn't have an army behind them. It is four normal Gondorian soldiers simply walking into Mordor. If you don't think that is tense, then I don't know what you would. Even if the whole rebellion is doomed to failure, that dosen't mean it has actually started yet.
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Post by the0gekko0state on Nov 26, 2015 14:34:17 GMT -8
I know it's not really canon like but I thought I was a good story... I'm going to be starting work on the idea again. Starting with how each clan's point of view.
What are people's thoughts on a secret minor clan alliance? I know not very canon but I like the idea lol. Maybe they have gotten some info or experienced first hand the Iron Daimyo. And now they band together to try and stop him. Because no one in the major clans will listen.
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Post by the0gekko0state on Mar 21, 2017 7:26:20 GMT -8
So with the recent excitement in L5R again, I too have been swept up in it. I've been taking another look at the Iron Daimyo campaign. I've started almost from scratch and have started to form my own timeline. Cause you know "L5R your way" kind of thing. Are people interested in hearing more?
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battlematt
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Post by battlematt on Mar 21, 2017 8:00:07 GMT -8
Are people interested in hearing more? I am always interested to hear what people are running and how it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 9:20:00 GMT -8
I know I would be.
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Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Mar 21, 2017 9:27:39 GMT -8
Definitely. I'm a big fan of the Kolat and will gladly digest anything that might relate to them.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Mar 21, 2017 9:32:12 GMT -8
Thumbs up
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