fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
|
Post by fredrix on Oct 2, 2015 23:23:19 GMT -8
So, I thought we might turn the rather negative, "is Fate a proper RPG" argument, into a more positive, "how to enable good roleplaying in Fate" discussion.
It seems that the verbal nature of a lot of the mechanics can distract players from the immersion into the diagesis that they seek. My intent is to demonstrate how to roleplay just as immersively as any game more complex than "let's pretend" allows.
My idea is that, rather than disect the meaning of the rules from the book(s), we might open the floor to questions from GMs and players along the lines of "I want my character to behave in this way/ do this thing" then us more experienced GMs and players share our (various) ways of how that might play out immersively, using the Fate mechanics.
The Fate doctors are in!
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Oct 3, 2015 8:50:02 GMT -8
I charge a nickel.
|
|
|
Post by Probie Tim on Oct 3, 2015 14:19:44 GMT -8
I may have many questions on this thread later, but I have none right now.
I will add this, and it's something that I'm finding right now: if you're new to FATE, start with FATE Core. Don't try to start with FATE Accelerated because it's smaller. The explanations and examples in FATE Core make it much easier to grok what's going on.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 0:52:08 GMT -8
Because I've written a wall of text on the matter and it is great fun to see how people handle it... How would you model the classic pushing a character off a cliff in FATE.
|
|
|
Post by greatwyrm on Oct 4, 2015 11:23:33 GMT -8
What's your opinion of what a max group size is? I'm pretty sure I'm over it with 6-7 players.
|
|
fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
|
Post by fredrix on Oct 4, 2015 12:31:14 GMT -8
Because I've written a wall of text on the matter and it is great fun to see how people handle it... How would you model the classic pushing a character off a cliff in FATE. You may have to enlighten me as to the "classic" pushing a character off a cliff. But... First of all, is the cliff there? If the GM described it yes. But I'm not going to magic up a cliff purely upon player fiat. So a "create advantage" that invokes a "cliff edge" aspect to be pushed over is going to be based on "I manoeuvre to put him between me and the cliff edge" only if I've already mentioned it (or indeed if it's at all feasible because I set the scene on Beachy Head or somewhere, but neglected to specifically mention a cliff). If a player seriously wants to create a cliff, then their create advantage action is going to be "I set a course for the Cliffs of Despair" or something. The key message here for me is created aspects have to come out of existing aspects, be they ones I described (for example, the scene is set on a headland), or ones the PC came with. Assuming the cliff aspect exists. The PC is likely to be using create advantage a number of times to manoeuvre the adversary to the cliff edge, and then an attack, stacking as many free invocations as they have earned onto the result.
|
|
fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
|
Post by fredrix on Oct 4, 2015 12:37:05 GMT -8
What's your opinion of what a max group size is? I'm pretty sure I'm over it with 6-7 players. Not really the sort of "roleplaying" question I was looking for, but yeah 6-7 is plenty. I'm more of a 4-5 guy from preference. That said, having run a session of L5R for 10 (!) I reckon it might be easier in Fate.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Oct 4, 2015 14:18:09 GMT -8
My Dresden group was...7? But almost never were more than three able to play at a time. 7 would be tough, especially if they're good at doing maneuvers to place detrimental aspects on a big bad...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 22:43:29 GMT -8
fredrix how does this model them being shoved over the edge? They take some damage, but they haven't moved and nothing at this point is stopping them from moving back onto the plateau area at the top of said cliff. I'd assume you would use some form of the Fight skill, so what does this look like? You back your opponent to the edge of the cliff and then when you have him trapped with no where to go you beat the tar out of him? Doesn't seem satisfactory. The player was looking for him to take a tumble over the side and fall, possibly to his own death. so here is what we need to accomplish: 1) The enemy must be unable to simply walk away or continue the fight without dealing with his state of falling. This suggests we are placing an aspect on him. 2) the aspect is representive of his fall. As such we could treat it like dangerous terrain. Thus we can use the fractal of fate to have gravity and the ground do the attacking. 3) Since fate is about dramatic stories of pulpy characters the person being shoved needs some chance to escape their certain doom. To this end there must be a way to overcome the aspect (such as clinging to the cliff side), before they meet their "certain" doom. Added bonus: You can tell all the people who call fate a hippy game to shove it. This model works almost exactly like any other simulation type game where falling damage exists.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Oct 5, 2015 5:04:36 GMT -8
If I were GMing it, I'd model it as the baddie doing a voluntary "taken out". And since in that situation you get to decide what the conditions of being taken out are, Mr. Bad gets to be the classic 'guy goes over the cliff, there's no way he survived that, but... where's the body?' trope.
And then show up at some point in the future to harry the group.
|
|
fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
|
Post by fredrix on Oct 5, 2015 12:10:06 GMT -8
As sbloyd says, if the antagonist is taken out, s/he is taken out, as soon as she goes over the cliff. Whether that "taken out" means dashed to the rocks below or left clinging to a root in the cliff is kind of up to the players (including the GM) and what is appropriate to the solution. The free invokes earned in my earlier creating advantage would likely fill the antagonists stress tracks. But your fractal cliff @stevensw would be a perfectly valid alternative.
|
|
willh
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 220
|
Post by willh on Oct 5, 2015 12:22:07 GMT -8
Yeah "taken out" is the way to go. You would only throw someone off a cliff mid fight if it was a setting where you could expect to keep going after that, supers or maybe wire-fu stuff.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 16:53:43 GMT -8
As sbloyd says, if the antagonist is taken out, s/he is taken out, as soon as she goes over the cliff. Whether that "taken out" means dashed to the rocks below or left clinging to a root in the cliff is kind of up to the players (including the GM) and what is appropriate to the solution. The free invokes earned in my earlier creating advantage would likely fill the antagonists stress tracks. But your fractal cliff @stevensw would be a perfectly valid alternative. That is a major If. Which is why I don't like to do it as an attack. It seems like a better excuse for a GM to "save" his villain for later. You wouldn't even need to invoke the cliff, as long as he was in that area it is feasible that his taken out is going over the side. Remember what you are modeling. When a player wants to shove someone over a cliff it is because they want that fall. Using invokes and their own attack creates a disconnect. Not enough invokes and they aren't taken out. And mechanically there is no representation of what just happened. Not to mention that it saps the fun from the mechanical aspect of the game if everything is just a +2 to your attack. There are 4 things you can do in fate with a roll, attacking is just one of them.
|
|
|
Post by shadrack on Oct 6, 2015 6:26:38 GMT -8
After a long confrontation with much positioning and noticing of loose stones, the villain concedes before the final assault and plummets over Reichenbach Falls.
|
|
|
Post by jazzisblues on Oct 6, 2015 18:41:23 GMT -8
I may have many questions on this thread later, but I have none right now. I will add this, and it's something that I'm finding right now: if you're new to FATE, start with FATE Core. Don't try to start with FATE Accelerated because it's smaller. The explanations and examples in FATE Core make it much easier to grok what's going on. Singularly the best explanation of how Fate works can be found in the, "Atmoic Robo RPG," by Mike Olson. Read the side bars by Doctor Dinosaur. JiB
|
|