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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 19, 2015 1:06:06 GMT -8
My experience has been that crits rolled on the chart are very anticlimactic. Many of the criticals only last for the the combat and effect things you likely won't do in the combat. Against villains they are especially disappointing as a system. Against minions they are overly effective, taking out minions for free. Against rivals and up they almost aren't worth tracking or can trivialize a fight. Other than the few combat worthy criticals, they only matter to the players as a metric of long term damage. In short I feel like the wound and critical system (which can't really be separated) are poorly done in this line comparatively with WHFRP 3rd (where the narrative dice system for FFG got its start). For anyone with both systems it might even be worth it to try and integrate WHFRP's wound cards. I suspect that's a conscious decision on the part of FFG. While I'm not a fan of WFRP 3E, the setting is supposed to be grimdark and gritty. Combat in all versions of WFRP is vicious and nasty, and critical hits were potentially game-ending in 1E & 2E. Star Wars is pulpy, matinee-style, space-opera adventure (although it looks like Rogue One may change that). You probably could integrate 3E's wound cards, but I think you'd change the Star Wars tone of the game. If it's what you're into though, why not?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 1:13:26 GMT -8
I suppose I simply wonder why they chose to include a critical system at all. It really doesn't fit that pulpy theme as it currently stands.
My favorite Star Wars game was played in hero system. The weapons were all deadly and the name of the game was avoidance. Getting shot was a big moment, like Leia getting shot in ep VI. FFG's Star Wars can't accomplish this kind of play because difficulties are mostly static (for combat). Even getting all the talents to help be evasive don't have a big impact. So you end up with a slugfest with players burning at stim packs to make it through. Overall, not as satisfying to me. It is a weakness of the die system for sure, but one I don't mind as much in warhammers grimdark setting.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 19, 2015 3:41:47 GMT -8
I suppose I simply wonder why they chose to include a critical system at all. It really doesn't fit that pulpy theme as it currently stands. My favorite Star Wars game was played in hero system. The weapons were all deadly and the name of the game was avoidance. Getting shot was a big moment, like Leia getting shot in ep VI. FFG's Star Wars can't accomplish this kind of play because difficulties are mostly static (for combat). Even getting all the talents to help be evasive don't have a big impact. So you end up with a slugfest with players burning at stim packs to make it through. Overall, not as satisfying to me. It is a weakness of the die system for sure, but one I don't mind as much in warhammers grimdark setting. I dunno, i kind of enjoy the critical chart, recently another plager ended up rolling Blinded, and its nt a til the enx of combat effect. So his current choice is buy some cybernetic eyes, or try and get someone to heal him, which will suck, cause its a 4 challenge dice critical, so extremely difficult. Plus we can relive moments where your hand is cut off by a lightsaber, and get a cybernetic replacement!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 3:46:04 GMT -8
In my hero system game we had Force points that you could burn to survive death. Narratively you usually took some kind of limb dismemberment or other injury that would be fixed via cybernetics. Of course we could have used hit location & dismemberment rules to accomplish the same thing without death.
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 19, 2015 3:53:27 GMT -8
I have had 34 years of the d6 Star Wars system. Deadly combat. Lots of dodging.
It's time for a change and ffg is it. Skipped the d20 stuff.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 19, 2015 5:33:01 GMT -8
If you want to go super narrative and free, go for the Apocalypse World hack Star Wars World.
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Post by Stu Venable on Oct 19, 2015 6:23:29 GMT -8
From my last read, players "spend" their advantages (whatever they're called -- the good things). Weapon stats tell you how many they need to critical. I haven't run it yet, but that's what I'm remembering (between also reading Mage20, Spirit of '77, etc.) Stu, How the fuck can you be reading that many different systems without your brain exploding? Who says my brain is *not* exploding?
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 19, 2015 6:27:39 GMT -8
...good point...
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 19, 2015 7:29:53 GMT -8
I suppose I simply wonder why they chose to include a critical system at all. It really doesn't fit that pulpy theme as it currently stands. My favorite Star Wars game was played in hero system. The weapons were all deadly and the name of the game was avoidance. Getting shot was a big moment, like Leia getting shot in ep VI. FFG's Star Wars can't accomplish this kind of play because difficulties are mostly static (for combat). Even getting all the talents to help be evasive don't have a big impact. So you end up with a slugfest with players burning at stim packs to make it through. Overall, not as satisfying to me. It is a weakness of the die system for sure, but one I don't mind as much in warhammers grimdark setting. I dunno, i kind of enjoy the critical chart, recently another plager ended up rolling Blinded, and its nt a til the enx of combat effect. So his current choice is buy some cybernetic eyes, or try and get someone to heal him, which will suck, cause its a 4 challenge dice critical, so extremely difficult. Plus we can relive moments where your hand is cut off by a lightsaber, and get a cybernetic replacement! Lightsabers are super-deadly. The Breach 1 quality is almost OP......
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invictusblue
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 1
Currently Running: FFG SW, 13th Age
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Post by invictusblue on Oct 19, 2015 7:37:35 GMT -8
My experience has been that crits rolled on the chart are very anticlimactic. Many of the criticals only last for the the combat and effect things you likely won't do in the combat. Against villains they are especially disappointing as a system. Against minions they are overly effective, taking out minions for free. Against rivals and up they almost aren't worth tracking or can trivialize a fight. Other than the few combat worthy criticals, they only matter to the players as a metric of long term damage. In short I feel like the wound and critical system (which can't really be separated) are poorly done in this line comparatively with WHFRP 3rd (where the narrative dice system for FFG got its start). For anyone with both systems it might even be worth it to try and integrate WHFRP's wound cards. I have found the the critical hit/injury system works great for getting the players worried, as it's the only way for a PC to die. The critical injuries take a lot to heal, as the healing can only be attempted once per game-week. If a character isn't able to heal a few of their crits after a combat, that's going to make the next crits they take that much worse. The other thing it does is make a clear distinction between being incapacitated and dying. A character can go down fast, but only a very bad critical injury will kill them; and if the enemies don't have really scary weapons, that likely won't happen. Your opinion against the system is certainly some of the best-phrased dissents I've heard, just wanted to see if some discussion could help redeem it for you at all. The system as a whole definitely shines with a particular style of play and GMing, which is not everyone's cup of tea.
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Post by joecrak on Oct 19, 2015 7:51:15 GMT -8
I dunno, i kind of enjoy the critical chart, recently another plager ended up rolling Blinded, and its nt a til the enx of combat effect. So his current choice is buy some cybernetic eyes, or try and get someone to heal him, which will suck, cause its a 4 challenge dice critical, so extremely difficult. Plus we can relive moments where your hand is cut off by a lightsaber, and get a cybernetic replacement! Lightsabers are super-deadly. The Breach 1 quality is almost OP...... I can't entirely deny that, but my main character has a vibrorapier with pierce 7 (so many mods), but it lacks the base damage a lightsaber has. Of course once players have lightsabers, all the rivals you meet suddenly sgart having cortossis weave armor.
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Post by daeglan on Oct 20, 2015 21:20:13 GMT -8
My experience has been that crits rolled on the chart are very anticlimactic. Many of the criticals only last for the the combat and effect things you likely won't do in the combat. Against villains they are especially disappointing as a system. Against minions they are overly effective, taking out minions for free. Against rivals and up they almost aren't worth tracking or can trivialize a fight. Other than the few combat worthy criticals, they only matter to the players as a metric of long term damage. In short I feel like the wound and critical system (which can't really be separated) are poorly done in this line comparatively with WHFRP 3rd (where the narrative dice system for FFG got its start). For anyone with both systems it might even be worth it to try and integrate WHFRP's wound cards. Those are the lower level crits. every crit adds a plus 10 to the next roll. A weapon with the vicious quality add +10 per level. Several talents add +10. For example I have a character with a lightsaber that has vicious 4. So crits with this weapon start at 41.
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Post by ericfromnj on Oct 21, 2015 7:10:29 GMT -8
Having never used the system before, I have no opinion on it as of yet. Heck, I am just trying to help players get through character creation at this point.
D6 had the long healing times too. However, there was a Force power that could help speed things along. Is there something like that in FFG?
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Post by joecrak on Oct 21, 2015 15:22:44 GMT -8
Having never used the system before, I have no opinion on it as of yet. Heck, I am just trying to help players get through character creation at this point. D6 had the long healing times too. However, there was a Force power that could help speed things along. Is there something like that in FFG? There's a Force Heal power, as well as a Force Healer Specialization in Force & Destiny, a Doctor Specialization in Edge of the Empire, and I think a Medic in Age of Rebellion. They all provide talents and bonuses to medicine checks to help heal faster.
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Post by gurpsdelver on Oct 22, 2015 12:20:37 GMT -8
Having never used the system before, I have no opinion on it as of yet. Heck, I am just trying to help players get through character creation at this point. D6 had the long healing times too. However, there was a Force power that could help speed things along. Is there something like that in FFG? There's a Force Heal power, as well as a Force Healer Specialization in Force & Destiny, a Doctor Specialization in Edge of the Empire, and I think a Medic in Age of Rebellion. They all provide talents and bonuses to medicine checks to help heal faster. The most common way players heal is through stimpacks. Found on EotE pg. 182. They're cheap (25 credits each), easy to find (rarity 1), and light to carry easily in bulk (10 of them are 1 encumbrance). They're basically healing pots with diminishing returns. After 5 uses you have to wait 24 hours for them to be effective again. 5 uses will heal 15 wounds total, and cost your player about 125 credits. Emergency Med Packs or Proper Med Kits will allow someone with the medicine skill to attempt to heal a number of wounds, and critical injuries.
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