|
Post by Probie Tim on Mar 14, 2016 12:53:43 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Mar 14, 2016 16:16:00 GMT -8
Who says you can't make money from a hobby I'd guess a good 2 outta 10 DnD games over the last 40yrs have been a home brewed a Middle Earth at some point (just those darn pesky licenses) Aaron
|
|
nanoboy
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 142
|
Post by nanoboy on Mar 15, 2016 11:50:38 GMT -8
The thing is that Middle Earth is pretty different from D&D assumptions, despite being an inspiration for the game. Wizards are really angels sent by the gods to fix the world, for example. D&D doesn't really handle that kind of thing well.
|
|
|
Post by uncommonman on Mar 15, 2016 12:11:08 GMT -8
The thing is that Middle Earth is pretty different from D&D assumptions, despite being an inspiration for the game. Wizards are really angels sent by the gods to fix the world, for example. D&D doesn't really handle that kind of thing well. Exactly, if you remove magic the system could be a good fit but why would you play d&d without magic.
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Mar 16, 2016 1:45:00 GMT -8
By playing Middle Earth with slightly different assumptions about magic and the 'Angelic' Wizards. In the old ICE version The Wizards are exactly that, therefore not PC's, BUT mortals can learn magic . . . Like the Witch King (he started out as a mortal blah, blah). The Wizards restrained their power on Middle Earth: they followed certain rules to remain there. Could Gandalf, full Angelic, kick most arse - yeah, but he didn't because his role was to inspire the free peoples of Mlddle Earth to do it themselves. The Elves have magic and some of it can be passed on to mortals - Frodo invokes Elbereth Gilthoniel successfully because he heard elves use it. The men of old wielded great and terrible magics that became a challenge, in their hubris, to the Gods leading to the great fall and reshaping of Middle Earth afterwards - Aragorn and his kin retain, though diluted, some of that essence of power: it's one of the reasons Aragorn is so vital when he is so old and lives for so long and is granted the grace to choose his time to die. It's hinted that the men of the East dabbled in dark magics learned from the Dark Lord. So characters could use magic, even potent magics, but not have to be 'Angelic' Wizards. Noting that the mortals of Middle Earth called them Wizards, perhaps because it was a familiar title that best described them. The were in fact, amongst themselves and to those who knew what they really were, called The Istari. PC Wizards yes, PC Istari no Aaron
|
|
|
Post by uncommonman on Mar 16, 2016 1:54:44 GMT -8
In Tolkiens middle earth magic is passive, in the background.
In D&D magic is in your face and "flashy".
Look at the books and what magic is used:
Invisibly (only from the one ring), speach (Saruman), light (Frodo), Gandalf holds a door, removes a "curse" and that is all he does.
Yes there is magic in the ring books but it is more like feats or unimpressive magic items compared to D&D books.
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Mar 16, 2016 4:25:13 GMT -8
Gandalf also casts fire and artefacts have power - sting, glamdring, mithral shirts. It's not 'flashy' but it is there, often existing on a another level of awarness - like Galdriel and Elrond weaving mighty magics to keep the shadow from their realms. A world Frodo sees manifest when he wears the ring. The white horses at the ford were pretty flashy and the shattering of the gate of Minas Tirith was also flashy. There is also power in words, runes and oaths. Not to mention summoning type magics. If you limit your DnD spell caster list to only fireballs and lightening bolts then you might have a point, but there are other spells whose effects can be 'subtle' merely thru the virtue of narrative trappings. Aaron
|
|
|
Post by uncommonman on Mar 16, 2016 6:02:54 GMT -8
You yourself said: PC Wizards yes, PC Istari no.
The magic you describe is all Gandalf and the one ring.
The river horses is added by Gandalf (illusion) and would else have been "just" the river rising quickly.
In d&d spells can be cast a number of times every day, in middle earth magic is cast a few times during the whole campaign.
Yes there is a lot of magic in middle earth but it is background magic, items or o ly the 10 most powerful beings in the world that use it.
What I am saying is that if you go by the lord of the rings (and Bilbo) the players don't use magic and d&d is heavy with magic - magic is a integral part of the game- so why would you play middle earth in d&d?
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Mar 16, 2016 7:17:34 GMT -8
It's just trappings . . . DnD magic is flash bang because we describe it so - plus several decades of adding more and more exotic spells the spell lists. Pair down the spell lists and redescibe there effects - the old 1e conversion of Lankhmar did it successfully: spell casting times were lengthened and spell recovery a well as limiting the spells available. Then of course it'll be a balance issue . . . in the Lankhmar conversion real magic was very rare so ANY magic granted a huge advantage to balance out the mechanical hindrances . . . Aaron
|
|
|
Post by Probie Tim on Mar 16, 2016 7:34:24 GMT -8
so why would you play middle earth in d&d? "D&D" is just as much of a setting trope as it is a game system. While D&D as a setting trope is very flashy-magic-in-your-face, D&D as a rules system does not have to be so; check out Call of Cthulhu d20 (one of the most underrated d20 games) as an example. Middle Earth for D&D as a rules system has the potential to be really cool, if it's done right.
|
|
gammonstark
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 8
Preferred Game Systems: D&D 5e, AD&D 2e, Feng Shui, Psi Run
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Ravenloft in Adventurer's League
Favorite Species of Monkey: Bonobos - Those crazy masturbators
|
Post by gammonstark on Mar 24, 2016 13:57:43 GMT -8
What a great year to get back into RPGs. I get Ravenloft and Middle-Earth in my D&D!
|
|
|
Post by ilina on Mar 24, 2016 17:48:09 GMT -8
the problem with incorporating the D&D spellcasting classes isn't as much a matter of incorporating individual spell effects. it is mostly a matter of whether you can reskin the spell's description through trappings to fit the setting.
a literal 21st century schoolgirl from Japan would be a poor fit, but the uniform could be described as the student uniform of a particular bardic college, wizard's academy, knight school or something like that. meaning you could still dress like a Japanese schoolgirl in a medieval setting if you honestly want to insert some scholastic institution that wears that particular style of uniform. just expect to be recognized as a scholar rather than mistaken for an innocent child.
but that is an example of tweaking something to retain an aesthetic while better fitting the setting
a Neko might be a bad fit for a game of Vampire, but you could play a Gangrel vampire with connections to felines, who gained cat ears and a cat tail as part of a permanent result from botched Gangrel transformations and still get your neko fix
though i generally prefer players be honest and direct about the characters they want to play instead of looking for cheap workarounds to access their preferred character type. everybody has a preferred type, with me, it is the Weeaboo in her twenties with the figure, features and appearance of a highly advanced but physically underdeveloped and deceptively innocent 12 year old girl. the character who pretends to be an innocent child as a charade while secretly plotting something squicky, creepy, and far less innocent than she comes off as. generally things only the creepiest of geeks imagine.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 0:38:37 GMT -8
The problem with middle earth in D&D is one of power curves. Mortals don't become godlike in middle earth. Aaragorn is just a man. As a man, he will never become so mighty as to take five arrows to the chest and be fine. As a D&D character of a certain level, Aaragorn gives no shits. You could try to limit the scope of the game to low levels, or you could just pick one that fits the framework of that setting better (goodbye Vancian magic!).
A game like torchbearer might do a better job at playing in middle earth (even with the Vancian Magic), but you'd be better served if you stopped trying to put the square peg in the round hole.
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Mar 25, 2016 4:13:38 GMT -8
Actually Aragorn IS more than just a man, he is a Dunedain who are descendants of the Numeanorean's - They of the Westernesse, the greatest race of Man, who rebelled against the Valar. As a descendant of of Isildur his lineage has elven blood . . . he and Arwen Undomie have a common ancestor: Elros Tar-Minyatur, the first King of Númenor, being Elrond's brother and therefore Arwen's Uncle. Elrond chose to be of Elven kind and his brother chose to be of Man, but each still retained a bit of the other. For this reason Arwen was able to choose to become mortal when she married Aragorn and stayed in Middle Earth after the last ship sailed from the Grey Havens. Boromir was also of Numenorean descent, though far more diluted than Aragorn's line, and he kept fighting after how many arrows to the chest before finally falling? . . . Aaron
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2016 4:33:44 GMT -8
Actually Aragorn IS more than just a man, he is a Dunedain who are descendants of the Numeanorean's - They of the Westernesse, the greatest race of Man, who rebelled against the Valar. As a descendant of of Isildur his lineage has elven blood . . . he and Arwen Undomie have a common ancestor: Elros Tar-Minyatur, the first King of Númenor, being Elrond's brother and therefore Arwen's Uncle. Elrond chose to be of Elven kind and his brother chose to be of Man, but each still retained a bit of the other. For this reason Arwen was able to choose to become mortal when she married Aragorn and stayed in Middle Earth after the last ship sailed from the Grey Havens. Boromir was also of Numenorean descent, though far more diluted than Aragorn's line, and he kept fighting after how many arrows to the chest before finally falling? . . . Aaron About 3 or so, though he was a dead man walking after 1 (arrows kill through massive blood loss which is not instant). As for Aragorn, he was the greatest of MEN. Even the greatest man is still a man, so thank you for agreeing with me I suppose? Interesting takeaway, dieing and being incapacitated are not one and the same. Many duels ended with the victor bleeding out or dieing of infection later and man soldiers die days later from compressed skull fractures. RPGs really have a very inaccurate view of injury and incapacitation.
|
|