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Post by Monkeyfun Dave on Apr 18, 2016 18:37:00 GMT -8
Over the weekend, I was talking with stork about V:tM and the conversation briefly drifted to discussing Tremere clan, but I didn't get a chance to elaborate on my opinions about them. Your mileage may vary of course, but here's what I didn't get to say about them. Ultimately, I am not a fan of Clan Tremere for player characters because I thinks its core concept extremely limits player agency and options. People joke about Clan Tremere being the Amway of the Underworld, but there's not a lot of variance in the process of characters people usually play - scholar, practitioner, and that's usually about it. If they do go beyond that however, you're really skirting the boundaries of what will be allowed in game by the pyramid structure. Some GM's will allow that but really, they are written to be locked down in terms of character agency. To be fair, I think there's nothing wrong with playing them if you have no problem exploring their button down world (I for one strangely enjoy playing Men in Black, as an example.) But I just don't see a lot of core variance that allows for a lot of strong role play and surprises. More often than not, I like Tremere to be played as NPC's, so it keeps them slightly unknowable and shifty in their inclusion in the vampire world. I'm not particularly a fan of the Sabbat as a player character option either, for similar reasons. I once participated in a Sabbat LARP, and despite the more brutal violence inherent to the milieu, it was actually boring as shit. (Hey everyone, lets vaulderie! Cool, that took an hour, now let's have a pack meeting!) Tremere are a weird holdover from Ars Magica, and although I don't know for certain which came first, I always feel like Tremere are remnants from a different game system, pigeonholed into a mileu that doesn't quite work for my tastes. Thamauturgy is also one of those disciplines that has the strict rules around it... that everyone just about wants to break. "My character is old enough to where he learned it before the Tremere locked it down", for example. Eh, alright. Seems like you're trying to skirt around somethings that's kind of broken to me. Now watch. Timmy's gonna come on here and say it's his favorite clan. :-D
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Post by ayslyn on Apr 18, 2016 21:12:33 GMT -8
Ars Magica came very much first. The remainder of the Order of Hermes appears in Mage (iirc.... Going to look now...)
I thought so... They are there. ^.^
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Post by Monkeyfun Dave on Apr 18, 2016 22:15:26 GMT -8
Ars Magica came very much first. The remainder of the Order of Hermes appears in Mage (iirc.... Going to look now...) I thought so... They are there. ^.^ I really thought so but wasn't 100% sure, thank you for confirming that.
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Post by Probie Tim on Apr 19, 2016 10:15:47 GMT -8
Timmy's gonna come on here and say it's his favorite clan. You are incorrect, sir. If you're asking, I've had a shift of loyalties recently. My favorite clan used to be the Followers of Set, but more and more I think having a *clan* that is universally thought of as at least undesirable and at worst as an enemy is Doing It Wrong. I now think that the Setites should be a cult made of of vampires of other clans, with Serpentis becoming a cult discipline taught to the faithful. As of this moment, my favorite clan is the Nosferatu. Tremere can be fun, but they definitely require some ST creativity. I once played a 14th generation thin-blooded Tremere who was Thaumaturgically inept but was able to learn mortal sorcery (from the Mage: the Ascension supplement, Sorcery). Crazy fun character, but technically, by the canonical Tremere rules, should have been put to final death quicker than you can say "Order of Hermes". Pretty much, unless you *want* to play a cookie-cutter Path of Blood Tremere who spends almost all of their time stuck in the Chantry doing research to further the clan, you and your ST have to get creative.
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Post by Monkeyfun Dave on Apr 19, 2016 16:04:39 GMT -8
Timmy's gonna come on here and say it's his favorite clan. You are incorrect, sir. If you're asking, I've had a shift of loyalties recently. My favorite clan used to be the Followers of Set, but more and more I think having a *clan* that is universally thought of as at least undesirable and at worst as an enemy is Doing It Wrong. I now think that the Setites should be a cult made of of vampires of other clans, with Serpentis becoming a cult discipline taught to the faithful. As of this moment, my favorite clan is the Nosferatu. Tremere can be fun, but they definitely require some ST creativity. I once played a 14th generation thin-blooded Tremere who was Thaumaturgically inept but was able to learn mortal sorcery (from the Mage: the Ascension supplement, Sorcery). Crazy fun character, but technically, by the canonical Tremere rules, should have been put to final death quicker than you can say "Order of Hermes". Pretty much, unless you *want* to play a cookie-cutter Path of Blood Tremere who spends almost all of their time stuck in the Chantry doing research to further the clan, you and your ST have to get creative. That's pretty close to how I would envision the Pander in the Sabbat. Because they're the clanless, they would form a rigid organization that is ferociously devoted to the "Pander Family", and their leader, Joseph Pander. "Greetings into you in the name of Cain and the Allfather, Joseph Pander." Seriously. I need to run a Vampire game again.
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Post by Probie Tim on Apr 19, 2016 17:05:05 GMT -8
Seriously. I need to run a Vampire game again. Seriously. I need to play in your Vampire game.
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Post by Monkeyfun Dave on Apr 19, 2016 18:06:19 GMT -8
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Post by Probie Tim on Apr 19, 2016 20:37:18 GMT -8
I have no idea where you live, but it must be at least semi-local to Stu's house. If you were serious about running a Vampire game, I'm very sure we could swing something.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Apr 25, 2016 13:17:18 GMT -8
"I'm sorry, is your blood on fire?"
"Um, no. Why?"
"Because it is now." *snaps fingers*
Tremere is pretty great. I miss Cappadocians though. Stupid gangsters...
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 14, 2016 12:47:41 GMT -8
I never liked Tremere until I played one in Probie Tim's game. The problem with Tremere PCs, though, is that a lot is left up to Storyteller discretion and without some very concrete guidelines, it can become a clusterfuck pretty fast. The way a lot of the Rituals in Thaumaturgy are written up is abhorrent, IMHO - no actual mechanics, just a vague description that is very possible to interpret in multiple ways.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 22:17:43 GMT -8
Every clan needs people to do dirty work, especially when they are all about keeping it in house. Are you going to send a thaumaturge every time you need a dead body to vanish or a mortal to be handled? Nope! Might your 'cleaner' (a guy who makes bodies disapear) have a dot in magic? Maybe. What might be more useful is dominate to perform damage control on mortals. Auspex could tell you who is nervous or even let you read their thoughts. And don't forget good old fashioned skills or potency from their time as a ghoul (sure helps lift that heavy carpet you got rolled up there).
In the old clan book they had just these sorts of sample characters. It's not the fault of the clan that most people don't bother with these sorts of characters. A Tremere could be a skull and bones, Ivy League type with a Psychology practice where he helps the mentally deranged who believe in the supernatural. In order for his therapy to be effective he needs his clients to come at night, as their circadian rythem is crucial in curing them of their ailments. Successfully treated patients leave with their 'original' memories restored, their delusions brought on by extreme trauma removed. There was never a vampire, Mr Evens, your wife was attacked by a man with a knife and it was so traumatic that you imagined the creature. You see that now, don't you?
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jun 23, 2016 13:37:34 GMT -8
Mine was a book restoration technician - bookbinding, papermaking, et cetera. The magic was just something she fell into.
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Post by Bill Roper on Jul 9, 2016 15:07:00 GMT -8
Obviously, the answer was no.
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Post by Probie Tim on Jul 11, 2016 11:38:10 GMT -8
In my defense, we never got to the point of actually showing up. I will own up to not having completed my character on time, and I feel rotten about that.
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Post by Bill Roper on Jul 12, 2016 9:26:07 GMT -8
In my defense, we never got to the point of actually showing up. I will own up to not having completed my character on time, and I feel rotten about that.
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