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Post by jonas on May 6, 2016 9:43:29 GMT -8
Gan somebody explain the point of the edge Frenzy to me? To me, it just seems to let you do the same rhing as the normal manuever Rapid Attack.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 6, 2016 13:07:38 GMT -8
If I understand this correctly it does let you do the same thing but at a lower cost with only one additional attack. You're doing two attacks right now with the same weapon at -2 as opposed to three melee/ranged attacks (or six shots with a semi automatic) at -4. Essentially it's being better at doing Rapid Attacks. Frenzy can also be used in conjunction with other combat moves like Two Weapons and Wild Attack.
Example: Wolverine wants to slash at The Blob with both claws (Snikt! Snikt!) and wildly jumps at him. The Wild Attack gives Wolverine +2 to his attacks. The first attack would be at +0 for Two Weapons and his second attack would be at -2 for Off-Hand penalty (let's assume he's not Ambidextrous). Wolverine decides to lead in with a twisting claw that will hit Sabertooth after his first attack, so his first attack is now at -2, his Frenzy attack is at -2, and his second official attack jumps back to -4, all with the Wild Attack damage bonus.
Someone check my math make sure I'm being correct here.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 6, 2016 13:23:56 GMT -8
Okay that example is wrong based on the last sentence of Frenzy: "A character armed with two weapons still only makes one extra attack."
So now Wolverine is attacking at -0 and -2 with Wild Attack and can attack two foes? But it also appears that the Wild Die is rolled with both Fighting rolls so that's something too, I guess. This is confusing. Might need to take it to a higher up.
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joegun
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 249
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
Currently Playing: Just GM'ing right now.
Currently Running: Rippers Resurrected, and Savage RIFTS!
Favorite Species of Monkey: Baboon
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Post by joegun on May 6, 2016 15:48:30 GMT -8
Basically the difference between frenzy and rapid attack is the amount of attacks you can do, the negative modifier applied, and how it affects your parry.
Fenzy: 2 attacks with the same weapon. Roll 2 Fighting dice + 1 wild die everything is at -2 Improved Frenzy: samething as above but without the -2!
Rapid Attack: up to 3 attacks with the same weapon. Roll up to 3 Fighting Dice + 1 wild die, everything is at -4. AND -2 to your parry for that round.
So in the above examples you could ALSO Wild Attack with Frenzy or Rapid attack, which would offset some of the penalties (WA adds +2 fighting roll, +2 Damage, -2 parry ) but note that degrades your parry as well...
SO if you Wild Rapid attack you do this: 3 Fighting Dice + 1 Wild Die all at -2 AND -4 to your parry.
Hope this helps!
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Post by jonas on May 6, 2016 20:40:54 GMT -8
So of I understand this correctly:
The advantage of Frenzy, compared with Rapid Attack, is that you don't lose any Parry if you attack twice? Otherwise they work the same? (Except that Frenzy don't let you do three attacks, for that you continue to use Rapid Attack with -2 to Parry and -4 to the attack?)
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Post by ilina on May 7, 2016 0:25:38 GMT -8
Essentially, Frenzy lets you reduce the number of attacks in exchange for a reduction of the penalty and with the remova; pf the Parry loss. so it is as if you learned some self control and personal discipline.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 7, 2016 19:56:03 GMT -8
But then again how is that different from the Two Fisted edge? You can now make two attacks ignoring the multi-action penalty entirely. Just two Fighting attacks one after the other. Wouldn't that be better than Frenzy?
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Post by ilina on May 7, 2016 20:39:40 GMT -8
Frenzy can be done with a 2handed weapon or in conjunction with a shield. plus, the -2 off hand penalty is still an issue for 2 fisted. so either way, 2 edges to mitigate penalties. one gets a wild die, the other can be done with a 2hander or with a shield.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 7, 2016 21:15:59 GMT -8
So can you not normally attack with both fists in a fight? Like if I try to do the old One-Two Punch on a mook is that just one Fighting roll, or would I need to have Two Fisted or Frenzy to do it? I was always under the impression it was just an additional Fighting attack with an offhand counting as a multi-action (First attack at -2, second at -4). Am I wrong?
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Post by ilina on May 7, 2016 21:41:00 GMT -8
you can attack with both fists without 2fisted and ambidextrous, but both hands must be available and your primary punch is at a -2 and the secondary at a -4. Ambidextrou negates the -2 off hand penalty and 2 fisted negated the -2 multi action penalty. Frenzy lets you make 2 attacks with the same hand. meaning your other hand can be used to carry a shield or support a 2handed grip.
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Post by ayslyn on May 8, 2016 6:43:06 GMT -8
Right, so anyone can do it, the edges just mean that you are more trained/better at it than normal.
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Post by ilina on May 8, 2016 14:17:33 GMT -8
Right, so anyone can do it, the edges just mean that you are more trained/better at it than normal. anyone can dual wield with -2 to their primary hand and -4 to their offhand. but not everybody can make 2 attacks with the same hand at a -2 to the attack roll. the edges make you better at dual wielding, just as Frenzy is an improvement on the 3 attacks at -4. by making 2 attacks at -2 without the parry penalty. but anybody can dual wield or rapid attack. but both 2 fisted and frenzy are seasoned edges, and ambidextrous is a background edge. and a GM has the right to restrict background edges to character creation or simply has the right to require and Veto Justification. lots of tables forget that Two Fisted is a seasoned edge and that Ambidextrous is a Background Edge, just as they forget that Blast is a Seasoned Power.
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Post by jonas on May 8, 2016 22:03:26 GMT -8
So if I take Two Fisted, Ambidextrous and Frenzy, does that make me... a god?
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Post by ilina on May 8, 2016 22:53:25 GMT -8
So if I take Two Fisted, Ambidextrous and Frenzy, does that make me... a god? it doesn't make you a god, it lets you roll 2 fighting dice and 1 wild die with your primary hand and 1 fighting dice and 1 wild die with your offhand. all at -2 to hit. but you need at least 25 XP. because two fisted and frenzy are both seasoned edges. meaning you delayed your once per rank attribute bump or sacrificed a valuable skill or non combat edge to pidgeonhole yourself into combat. you also need like a d8 agility and d10 fighting. which means you spent 5 skill points and 2 attribute points. you would also have to dedicate a background edge to ambidextrous. meaning you were attacking twice at -2 for at least 10 sessions. you also have to beat your foes parry 3 times at a -2 penalty. have to move up to them, leaving you vulnerable to ranged assault. wield 2 weapons of which you meet the strength requirement. and if you dump smarts or spirit. you are fucked.
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Post by ilina on May 8, 2016 23:06:04 GMT -8
Savage Worlds characters are never gods. powerful characters merely draw more powerful enemies. plus the game isn't really built around murderhoboing or attrition by default. i'm not against powergaming. i'm against idiots who think they can "beat" a "campaign" by building the biggest, baddest, homicidal transient on the planet. killing things and taking thier stuff is so 40 years ago. nowadays, character concept should matter more than how well endowed you are. i play petite and youthful characters, because i want to be small and cute. like that cliche anime girl who looks and acts like a middle or high schooler, is a lot older than she appears, and is competent and skilled enough to keep up with the adults in the party in her own respective field.
for example, the teenage computer geek might not be as strong or nimble as the U.S Marine in the party. but she is as skilled with technology as the Marine is in a fight.
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