|
Post by uncommonman on Aug 19, 2016 2:51:57 GMT -8
It strikes me that you miss out on certain types of characters if you make every setting politically correct. Would have of thrones have as many scheming women if they had equal opportunity as their male counterparts? You have to decide which you value more, the setting and all its implications or your moral sensibilities. While we know slavery as abhorrent today, it would be hard to tell a story about plantations in the American south without them. It would be like trying to have a Star Wars game with no empire, you'd notice the difference. I agree fully, it is only a game and if the character you play is a racist it isn't saying that you are. Hell even Muhatma Gandih was racist, that doesn't make him less of a hero in that story. You just have to accept that as a product of the times. One of the most fun part of playing RPG's is to have a nuanced character.
|
|
tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
|
Post by tomes on Aug 19, 2016 9:28:08 GMT -8
It strikes me that you miss out on certain types of characters if you make every setting politically correct. You do. Definitely. The key is whether or not the players care about "missing out". And when I say "players" here I include the GM too. If your group wants to explore that stuff, have at it! Shit, if your group wants to play stereotypes and be completely racist, have at that too. Just as long as everyone is cool with it. Sometimes people are. Most people probably aren't. It's definitely walking a very thin line at a public venue, or gaming with strangers. I mean, even gaming with strangers you can have a conversation that would mitigate most or all of the drama (that's part of what X-cards or Lines and Veils attempt to do). But they're still strangers. Is that guy just saying he's cool with it? Maybe he is cool with it, but then he'll change his mind halfway during the game... and will he be confident enough to say something? Or just be upset and rant about it to others later? It's just some of the drama that comes with this (and any game, really, but the risks are greater here). While we know slavery as abhorrent today, it would be hard to tell a story about plantations in the American south without them. It would be like trying to have a Star Wars game with no empire, you'd notice the difference. Maybe so. Especially if it is about a plantation in the south. But just saying there is slavery says nothing about how it will be dealt with. Is it some old film classic from the '40s where it's all about the white folk, and the only black face is a slave in the background or for a 2-second bit of comic relief where the audience is meant to just laugh them off? Or are we talking about "12 Years A Slave"? Or something like "Django"? Or something completely different. Just thoughts...
|
|
|
Post by mook on Aug 19, 2016 14:38:13 GMT -8
To expand a bit, I was talking mostly about con/pick-up games. I agree that, in home games, with friends I know well and trust, some of our games have-- when you know people's limits-- let's just say, we've seen some shit.
But I'd never bring any kind of game with that much potential baggage to a table with 4-6 people I've (probably) never met and just hope for the best.
|
|
|
Post by ayslyn on Aug 19, 2016 17:48:50 GMT -8
Even in a home game I put out a red X Stop card.
There are always some things that people won't want to talk about that makes them uncomfortable.
|
|
|
Post by mook on Aug 20, 2016 0:52:05 GMT -8
My take would be more of starting with a set of group-answerable, leading questions that define the setting... i.e. something like: This allows the players to choose race. But also allows them to choose something completely different. This allows the group to have the rivals be a different race, different county, different income level, etc. But also one of a hundred other things. Maybe something really cool we haven't thought of. You, sir, are getting hippy all over me. That style of gaming sounds awesome, and as a theoretical I'm a huge fan. In practice, though, as a GM I've never been able to let go of that last bit of 'control.' Prepping a game of "Some kind of gang comes into conflict with some kind of enemy trying to protect some kind of macguffin" would be fun, but it is worlds away from "The Devil Boys have to keep the Stompy McStompertons from killing their ally Bubba Jones." Coming to the table, I know all about the McStompertons -- what kind of weapons they use, bikes they ride, their pres and vice-pres, their criminal enterprises, their clubhouse, why they want to kill Bubba, on and on. Same about the Devil Boys, and Bubba Jones, and the other adventure elements. The thought of having to come up with all that stuff on-the-fly and improv style sounds fun, but it is a very, very different kind of fun, and one I'm not very comfortable with. I am, in fact, saying... the character sheets are holding me back.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Aug 20, 2016 10:51:40 GMT -8
Have yet to listen to the whole podcast, Stu Venable, but I was reminded of an alternate-present setting (probably from the third edition GURPS Time Travel setting material... mook?) wherein the ice started melting and the seas started rising early on, giving rise to a culture of indentured servitude rather than one of slavery (people indentured themselves to get the hell out of the lowlands that were going to be underwater soon). For Vast Dominions (cue overture), I haven't read any source material... but you mention the industrial push. You're going to have a lot of the empires of the turn of the century snapping up able bodied men to put into the Space Corps, which may give you a Rosie The Riveter situation: women moving to take up manufacturing and other heavy duty jobs formerly dominated by men. This could be parlayed into an early push for suffrage, and for further Womens' Lib support.
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Aug 20, 2016 10:53:22 GMT -8
By the by, I always found it intriguing how comfortable gamers can be with fantasy racism (like the traditional Elves vs. Dwarves thing).
|
|
radzap
Apprentice Douchebag
Up the irons!
Posts: 64
Preferred Game Systems: AD&D 1st Ed.
Favorite Species of Monkey: DK
|
Post by radzap on Aug 20, 2016 12:41:05 GMT -8
Ok, here's a shameless plug for a game my company just finished the remaster of. This is an example of giving a character a poison pill because no matter how they react they will betray their mission to stay hidden. In video games it's way easy to simulate "choice" to promote the prevailing narrative. This clip is an example of a perfect sucker punch to player agency. The first time I played this, I felt pretty bitter about being so blatantly manipulated.
|
|
|
Post by mook on Aug 20, 2016 12:52:22 GMT -8
Have yet to listen to the whole podcast, Stu Venable , but I was reminded of an alternate-present setting (probably from the third edition GURPS Time Travel setting material... mook ?) wherein the ice started melting and the seas started rising early on, giving rise to a culture of indentured servitude rather than one of slavery (people indentured themselves to get the hell out of the lowlands that were going to be underwater soon). Sorry, sbloyd, I'm failing a Research roll on this one... I got nothin'! (Sounds cool though
|
|
|
Post by Kainguru on Aug 20, 2016 13:00:46 GMT -8
By the by, I always found it intriguing how comfortable gamers can be with fantasy racism (like the traditional Elves vs. Dwarves thing). Because it's cultural animosity not an analogue for racism. Usually elves and dwarves are of equal standing - neither is oppressing the other systematically and unilaterally. Elves V's Dwaves is more akin to the English v French animosity of the last 900+ yrs or the USA V's USSR Cold War (that wasn't racism it was ideological conflict) Aaron
|
|
tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
|
Post by tomes on Aug 20, 2016 15:02:02 GMT -8
That style of gaming sounds awesome, and as a theoretical I'm a huge fan. In practice, though, as a GM I've never been able to let go of that last bit of 'control.' Oh I understand. I've gone through various evolutions along this path, and it's still winding. When I play a game with little structure outright (like many PbtA are supposed to be), as the GM I'm shitting myself just prior to game time. "What if I'm not creative enough?" "What if I just get 'stuck' without an idea of where I should go?" etc. I still like to plan some skeleton outline prior to starting even these very open-ended games. And just for the sake of discussion: One middle of the road method is by doing *exactly* what you said about having the structure laid out. You know the people, you know what they've got, you know where they are at. Just let the players define what they look like, or why the rivalry is there. It becomes their narrative reasons, so they are more invested, even though you have all the structure and mechanics already figured out in the background. It's one of the beautiful part of the whole "leading questions" approach. You ask them questions, but in a manner that still works for your pre-set structure. As an example, in The Quiet Year you know, starting out, that you have defeated the "Jackals", but that in a year time the "Frost Shepherds" will arrive to wipe you out. What are these things? Are they gangs? Are they weather conditions? Are they diseases? Are they gods? That's up to you, as it's not necessarily important during that particular game.... they're just flavorful names. In your case you have the McStompertons. That's great. Let them decide why they hate those bastards. :-) But you know... no right way and blah blah blah. Oh ya, and feel free to come get some hippie medicinals over at the GoD room when you have time!
|
|