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Post by ayslyn on Sept 23, 2016 5:15:44 GMT -8
While I don't agree with him on the extent of his vitriol, some of his underlying argument is accurate.
As a writer, this frustrates me to no end. If we write about a white person (irrespective of our actual genealogies) we're accused of not being inclusive enough. If we DO write about a non-white person, we're appropriating their culture.
Well, fuck you all then...
And as I said before, I don't pick a race at random for a character. But, because that's what the character is in my mind. I'm writing a story where the main character is a Lebanese American, and a Muslim. I didn't do that because I thought that the Lebanese people were under represented, or that there weren't enough Muslims in fiction. I did it, because Khoury IS a Lebanese American Muslim.
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Post by uncommonman on Sept 23, 2016 5:31:53 GMT -8
If you want realism in gender, sexuallity and ethnicity you will still have a majority of straight white males in adventure groups.
Look att police swat units, military specialists and firefighters.
You will have less than the average percent of gay and transsexual persons (5-10% gay, 1% trans).
Gender is almost exclusively male (I think there is 2 female firefighters in all of Sweden).
Ethnicity is more mixed and I don't dare to guess since it depends a lot on location (usa national average is 13% african american, 17% hispanic and 62% white)
Ps. All numbers except ethnicity are from memory so they might be a bit of.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 22:02:41 GMT -8
Who really wants realism though? Does Urban shadows feature a lot of drive-byes or crack houses? What about homeless people? I suppose these real things in cities aren't glamorous enough to be included. I mean, unless they are homeless artists or crack houses for the ethnically diverse. I mean, they don't even bother to include all cities. Not every city is a melting pot like Los Angeles or New York City.
The Dresden file role playing game actually devotes an entire section to city creation and concerns itself with identifying problems to the city (supernatural or not). If anyone is looking for an alternative to play an Urban Fantasy game in, I suggest looking there first.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Sept 24, 2016 21:10:32 GMT -8
As a writer, this frustrates me to no end. If we write about a white person (irrespective of our actual genealogies) we're accused of not being inclusive enough. If we DO write about a non-white person, we're appropriating their culture. I do understand how the intersection of "write what you know" and "we need more diversity" can feel like non-PoC writers are being told not to write. My take on all this is that everyone should be able to see themselves reflected in the media they consume. The call for more diversity is simply people saying "I want to see more people like me in mainstream media", which I feel is totally fair. I also feel the best people to tell those stories are people from that particular group. But I also don't feel this is a zero-sum game. Having more stories about PoC characters doesn't mean that there is less room to tell stories about non-PoC characters. The audience hasn't shrunk. The people who identify with and consume media about non-PoC protagonists will still continue to do so. All that's happening is other people are saying there is an audience ready to consume media about PoC protagonists.
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Post by ayslyn on Sept 25, 2016 3:48:12 GMT -8
As a writer, this frustrates me to no end. If we write about a white person (irrespective of our actual genealogies) we're accused of not being inclusive enough. If we DO write about a non-white person, we're appropriating their culture. I do understand how the intersection of "write what you know" and "we need more diversity" can feel like non-PoC writers are being told not to write. My take on all this is that everyone should be able to see themselves reflected in the media they consume. The call for more diversity is simply people saying "I want to see more people like me in mainstream media", which I feel is totally fair. I also feel the best people to tell those stories are people from that particular group. But I also don't feel this is a zero-sum game. Having more stories about PoC characters doesn't mean that there is less room to tell stories about non-PoC characters. The audience hasn't shrunk. The people who identify with and consume media about non-PoC protagonists will still continue to do so. All that's happening is other people are saying there is an audience ready to consume media about PoC protagonists. Honestly. A call for more diversity, stemming from the point of view of "I want to see me in more fiction" doesn't bother me as much. I can totally see that. Who doesn't want to be able to identify with the main protagonist; to see some heroic ideal of themselves doing bad ass things. It's the much more frequent refrain that if I don't write about something non-white I am a bad person, coupled with the ones arguing that if I do write about a PoC character that I am appropriating their culture.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Sept 25, 2016 8:28:55 GMT -8
But the words from Magpie games that Hyvemind quoted, are not saying "you, white dude, you ought to be writing about black lesbians". Quoted in full, it's tone feels more "are you a black lesbian (or any one else) who thinks 'these books are OK, but aren't about my world'? Then don't worry, because this game doesn't emulate all those books, use it to make up the stories you want to experience"
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Post by ayslyn on Sept 25, 2016 9:05:26 GMT -8
What can I say. It came across a lot more passive-agressive than positive to me. Monsterhearts, as mentioned, was one where I think they did a great job. The tone there (as I read it) was, "Hey this game tackles some sensitive subjects that can make some people uncomfortable. But we think these make for great stories. Here are some things you can do to help make it more fun, and less uncomfortable for you."
*shrugs* It's a personal reaction, and I respect that others read it differently. In all honesty, given a month or two, it's not unlikely that my "outrage" (and I use the term VERY loosely) will fade and I'll probably finish reading it. But for now, in the heat of the moment, it annoyed the bejeesus out of me, and as I had a massive pile of other things I wanted to read, "tossing" it aside was easy.
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Post by jazzisblues on Oct 2, 2016 8:45:17 GMT -8
I haven't played Urban Shadows yet, and just coming off of a Vampire Requiem campaign I'm not super eager to jump into that again. The game was great but I need to cleanse my palette before I go down that road again.
JiB
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