The Alter Self Spell and Episode 1807
Dec 20, 2016 23:28:00 GMT -8
Post by lowkeyoh on Dec 20, 2016 23:28:00 GMT -8
So here's the that was expected from the episode.
Making the decision:
The hosts do a good job of exemplifying what they were talking about in the discussion in making a ruling without having complete information. All of the solutions they came up with are good, but aren’t informed by the actual text of Alter Self.
What Alter Self Does:
Let's look up Alter Self. It's on page 211 of the PHB. It's a second level spell, casting time is one action, range is self, and requires concentration and lasts for one hour.
Your new form gives you one of three benefits. Aquatic Adaptation (Breathe underwater and Swim at normal speed), Change Appearance (what you imagine) or Natural Weapons (What was going on in the e-mail)
Natural Weapons gives you proficiency with Unarmed Strikes, you grow some kind of weapon, be it horns, claws, or teeth. Those weapons are magic and you get +1 on attacks and +1 on damage.
Alter Self vs Cantrips.
The cantrips that are on the table are Acid Splash, Chill Touch, Fire Bolt, Poison Spray, Ray of Frost, and Shocking Grasp. Acid Slash is 1d6 damage to two creatures, with a dex save to negate. Chill touch is an attack against AC that deals 1d8 damage. Fire Bolt is a spell against AC that deals 1d10 damage. Poison Spray is 1d12 damage with Con save to negate. Ray of Frost is an attack against AC that deals 1d8 damage. Shocking Grasp is an attack against AC that deals 1d8 damage.
Your magical claws deal 1d6+Str+1 damage. So let's compare the attacks that hit AC.
As long as you have a 12 Strength these attacks are on par with cantrip damage. As your strength scales, so does your damage output. This is applicable until cantrip damage doubles at fifth level, but we’ll discuss that later.
Rewards for Creative Play
Everyone seemed to miss the actual mechanic in D&D5e that does this; Inspiration. If the game being discussed was Savage Worlds every single host would jump on the "toss them a benny" train. That's completely applicable here. Inspiration is the reward for creativity and good play.
Stu Venable and Kimi both expressed concern about setting a precedent at giving them a bonus, which is understandable. Especially because bonuses in 5e are huge. So no bonuses. But what you can do is give out advantage/disadvantage like candy.
jazzisblues said to reward narrative insights with narrative rewards. I'm 100% down with that. But one thing that makes 5e different from 4e and 3.PF is that the GM has MUCH more leeway to arbitrate in game mechanics decisions. Things like offering to pair the Intimidate skills with the Strength attribute instead of Charisma for the Barbarian smashing a table are well within a GM’s right, rules as written. So, as an empowered GM, you can and should give out bonuses like inspiration and advantage/disadvantage to your hearts content.
*You grow horns and look bad ass, make an intimidation roll with advantage. The intimidated gnolls do blank
*You intimidate the kobolds, they are now at disadvantage on attacks against you and saves from the party out of fear.
*You pop claws with a *snikt* and have advantage on the first attack you make against them.
Using the reward mechanics inherent to the system is not making an arbitrary decision that will have to stand up to scrutiny later. You're not fudging anything. You’re running the game rules as written.
Alter Self is too weak:
If after all this you feel alter self is underpowered and your mage really wants to pop claws and tumble, I'd homebrew some of the following.
*If cast from a 4th level slot or higher, you get a second attack. This keeps you on par with melee who get second attacks at 5th level, and melee bards/warlocks who get it at 6th. Your cantrips get extra power at 5th level, so getting bonus attacks at 7th level is within the scope of the power balance.
Maybe at 5th level you can allow offhand attacks. That keeps up with power level increase at 5th level.
There’s also the possibility of stealing the idea of trappings from Savage Worlds. There’s no reason the 1d20+Int attack for 1d10 damage can’t be a magic claw. Hell, even give it the +1 to hit and +1 damage if you want. You’re not losing out effectiveness and are still getting benefits from the spell.
Now you’re rewarding players for their ingenuity and keeping them engaged.
One last thing is that if your players are new and and they want to become more physical combat orientated, let them shuffle stats around. The beauty of the standard array is that it makes it really easy to shuffle stats around. Let them pump up their strength and become lean mean clawwizard machines.
Making the decision:
The hosts do a good job of exemplifying what they were talking about in the discussion in making a ruling without having complete information. All of the solutions they came up with are good, but aren’t informed by the actual text of Alter Self.
What Alter Self Does:
Let's look up Alter Self. It's on page 211 of the PHB. It's a second level spell, casting time is one action, range is self, and requires concentration and lasts for one hour.
Your new form gives you one of three benefits. Aquatic Adaptation (Breathe underwater and Swim at normal speed), Change Appearance (what you imagine) or Natural Weapons (What was going on in the e-mail)
Natural Weapons gives you proficiency with Unarmed Strikes, you grow some kind of weapon, be it horns, claws, or teeth. Those weapons are magic and you get +1 on attacks and +1 on damage.
Alter Self vs Cantrips.
The cantrips that are on the table are Acid Splash, Chill Touch, Fire Bolt, Poison Spray, Ray of Frost, and Shocking Grasp. Acid Slash is 1d6 damage to two creatures, with a dex save to negate. Chill touch is an attack against AC that deals 1d8 damage. Fire Bolt is a spell against AC that deals 1d10 damage. Poison Spray is 1d12 damage with Con save to negate. Ray of Frost is an attack against AC that deals 1d8 damage. Shocking Grasp is an attack against AC that deals 1d8 damage.
Your magical claws deal 1d6+Str+1 damage. So let's compare the attacks that hit AC.
Dice Damage | Average Damage | |
Chill Touch, Ray of Frost, Shocking Grasp | 1d8 | 4.5 |
Fire Bolt | 1d10 | 5.5 |
Alter Self | 1d6+1+Str | 4.5+Str |
As long as you have a 12 Strength these attacks are on par with cantrip damage. As your strength scales, so does your damage output. This is applicable until cantrip damage doubles at fifth level, but we’ll discuss that later.
Rewards for Creative Play
Everyone seemed to miss the actual mechanic in D&D5e that does this; Inspiration. If the game being discussed was Savage Worlds every single host would jump on the "toss them a benny" train. That's completely applicable here. Inspiration is the reward for creativity and good play.
Stu Venable and Kimi both expressed concern about setting a precedent at giving them a bonus, which is understandable. Especially because bonuses in 5e are huge. So no bonuses. But what you can do is give out advantage/disadvantage like candy.
jazzisblues said to reward narrative insights with narrative rewards. I'm 100% down with that. But one thing that makes 5e different from 4e and 3.PF is that the GM has MUCH more leeway to arbitrate in game mechanics decisions. Things like offering to pair the Intimidate skills with the Strength attribute instead of Charisma for the Barbarian smashing a table are well within a GM’s right, rules as written. So, as an empowered GM, you can and should give out bonuses like inspiration and advantage/disadvantage to your hearts content.
*You grow horns and look bad ass, make an intimidation roll with advantage. The intimidated gnolls do blank
*You intimidate the kobolds, they are now at disadvantage on attacks against you and saves from the party out of fear.
*You pop claws with a *snikt* and have advantage on the first attack you make against them.
Using the reward mechanics inherent to the system is not making an arbitrary decision that will have to stand up to scrutiny later. You're not fudging anything. You’re running the game rules as written.
Alter Self is too weak:
If after all this you feel alter self is underpowered and your mage really wants to pop claws and tumble, I'd homebrew some of the following.
*If cast from a 4th level slot or higher, you get a second attack. This keeps you on par with melee who get second attacks at 5th level, and melee bards/warlocks who get it at 6th. Your cantrips get extra power at 5th level, so getting bonus attacks at 7th level is within the scope of the power balance.
Maybe at 5th level you can allow offhand attacks. That keeps up with power level increase at 5th level.
There’s also the possibility of stealing the idea of trappings from Savage Worlds. There’s no reason the 1d20+Int attack for 1d10 damage can’t be a magic claw. Hell, even give it the +1 to hit and +1 damage if you want. You’re not losing out effectiveness and are still getting benefits from the spell.
Now you’re rewarding players for their ingenuity and keeping them engaged.
One last thing is that if your players are new and and they want to become more physical combat orientated, let them shuffle stats around. The beauty of the standard array is that it makes it really easy to shuffle stats around. Let them pump up their strength and become lean mean clawwizard machines.