kjleigh
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 24
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
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Post by kjleigh on Jan 13, 2017 15:36:37 GMT -8
How would you house rule for shooting multiple arrows at once? like Legolas style.
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Post by ilina on Jan 13, 2017 19:45:20 GMT -8
there is the Double Shot Edge in the Fantasy Companion that lets you treat bows as an RoF 2 Weapon. or you can simply Treat it as a Double tap or 3 Round Burst as per the core Rulebook.
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nanoboy
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 142
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Post by nanoboy on Jan 14, 2017 9:10:38 GMT -8
I'd probably require edges like ilina mentioned. In addition to Double Shot, you could require another edge to increase the rate of fire further, that one having Double Shot (and probably Veteran) as a prerequisite.
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Post by ilina on Jan 14, 2017 11:38:00 GMT -8
Double Shot itself Requires Seasoned and i believe Shooting d8. it lets you fire 2 Arrows that deal Damage as Separate Attacks. the Veteran Upgrade merely Removes the -2 Penalty. but it consumes 2 Arrows instead of 4. a RoF 3 or higher weapon is a bit excessive in a medieval fantasy Setting. in Fact, i Consider most Full Auto Weapons Excessive.
some Edges shouldn't have improved ranks, like Brawny or Fleet Footed for example because the Combat Benefits are Massive. you really shouldn't try to use a bow to Emulate an AK-47. i remember designing a Gatling Crossbow that was a Reskin of the Uzi in a Fantasy Setting. the weapon was too good.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 23:25:50 GMT -8
I tried to stay away from this post, since I don't really know savage worlds and I don't think it is realism based at all. But I failed. Rant to follow:
Loading two arrows onto a bow is plain stupid. Why? Because a bow works by taking energy loaded into the limbs and transferring it into the arrow. Loading more arrows onto the string means less energy gets transferred to each arrow. That means less velocity. That means the bow shoots entirely different. You'd probably need different arrows to make it work (arrows all have a spine rating, which is the stiffness of the arrow. This is important so the shaft bends around the riser and flies right). And at the end of it all you have to ask yourself if you have a sufficient energy remaining to reach and penetrate your target. The only saving grace is that the majority of arrows kill by slicing through vital organs (causing bleeding, asphyxiation, etc) instead of force (which is what blunts do vs small game). A bow of sufficient strength with good arrows can shoot through multiple animals, meaning you might still have enough force to get the job done (since shooting an arrow faster doesn't help if you are already achieving a pass through shot, except in flattening trajectories which makes the shot easier).
In short, trick shooting doesn't work for a combat/war setting. Shooting two arrows off a bow at the same time is not better than one, unless you/your bow is so strong that your arrows are like lightning bolts from Zeus. When your bow has the same power as a catapult, maybe this would be a better tactic.
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Post by ilina on Jan 15, 2017 6:29:57 GMT -8
double shot lets you Attack Twice in the same turn with a bow. instead of Trick Shooting, you Snap Shot Twice Back to Back. Snapshots are still useful in combat. the Legolas Trick Shooting isn't. the downside in penetration for shooting 2 arrows in one turn with the double shot edge is represented by a -2 penalty to both shooting rolls. this is the same level pf penalty for shooting into medium range, and it stacks.
the improved version negates the -2 penalty. but requires veteran tier, and Double shot itself requires seasoned. but a bow deals 2d6 damage and quickly kills targets by means other than infection, SW combat is full of Cinematic Stunts, but is Extremely Lethal and Extremely Deadly.
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Post by ilina on Jan 15, 2017 6:53:37 GMT -8
SW is pretty close to Game of Thrones once you employ the Full Set of Rules. purely cinematic fighting styles done for rule of cool, and well, high character incapacitation rate. and if you don't play with the Shaken Errata, things get a lot grittier because you can easily get shaken locked. which means you can't exchange hostile actions, but then, i would allow a Shaken Character in a fantasy setting to drink one potion in a turn because drinking a potion is functionally no different from drinking a friggin coke, and you can drink a friggin coke while shaken. same thing with fallout stimpacks, no harder than a diabetic needle prick. the action is in withdrawing and preparing the item rather than consuming it.
but no matter what i play with Weekly William's group, i usually end up with the healing skill and being the party bandaid, even as an assassin (acupuncture), a Psionicist (Psychometabolism), a Shaman (Phoenix Fire), or an Alchemist (Ancient Drow Poultices that provide rapid healing, but friggin hurt like hades.) as 4 different types of healers i played. i literally looked for the more malicious healing trappings like Acupuncture or Psychometabolism (Heal Wounds on a Target by Melting their Body Fat as fuel for the healing. literally stripped the obese monk of his obese hindrance due to the amount of healing he needed with my Psion.)
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kjleigh
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 24
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
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Post by kjleigh on Jan 16, 2017 10:03:55 GMT -8
In short I've figured out how to manage what the PC wants to do. Thanks ilina for pointing out the rules. I have to say though, I honestly don't understand @stevensw rant. I know how bows work, archery is my other hobby. I've even tried the whole shooting two arrows thing in real life, and yeah, it doesn't go so well. But to tell a PC they can't do something in a fantasy setting because it doesn't work in real life would be stupider than allowing the trick shot. I'm not gonna tell the mage he can't shoot fire balls because fire doesn't behave like that and magic isn't real. Rule of cool. If the PC wants to do it, and it sounds cool and would make the table happy, I'll do my best to make it happen.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 11:04:02 GMT -8
In short I've figured out how to manage what the PC wants to do. Thanks ilina for pointing out the rules. I have to say though, I honestly don't understand @stevensw rant. I know how bows work, archery is my other hobby. I've even tried the whole shooting two arrows thing in real life, and yeah, it doesn't go so well. But to tell a PC they can't do something in a fantasy setting because it doesn't work in real life would be stupider than allowing the trick shot. I'm not gonna tell the mage he can't shoot fire balls because fire doesn't behave like that and magic isn't real. Rule of cool. If the PC wants to do it, and it sounds cool and would make the table happy, I'll do my best to make it happen. Enjoy that can of worms you just opened. Either the move will suck, in which case it isn't rule of cool... or you just defined what the archer will want to do all the time. Double the damage for a small penalty to hit? Sign me up! Also, I'd have no problem saying no or 'yes, but' to someone wanting to use magic in a way that doesn't work. Fire doesn't burn underwater, so you need to do or sacrifice X in order to make that work. And having consistent rules for a setting makes it easier to understand and buy into. No one is saying you can't include fantasy element, but maybe stay away from the gonzo ones (unless that is the kind of game you run, in which case ... Whatever).
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Post by ilina on Jan 16, 2017 11:16:31 GMT -8
each Arrow is its own Separate Shooting and Damage Roll. and -2 is a huge penalty in Savage Worlds. you aren't getting one 4d6 attack. you are getting 2 attacks that deal 2d6 apiece. there are weapons that make a 3rd attack with the same penalty and have better armor penetratiob while using less hands. like the Uzi or a gatling crossbow based on the Uzi Template. remember that both attacks eat the -2 and that you get one wild die.
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kjleigh
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 24
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
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Post by kjleigh on Jan 16, 2017 11:31:20 GMT -8
each Arrow is its own Separate Shooting and Damage Roll. and -2 is a huge penalty in Savage Worlds. you aren't getting one 4d6 attack. you are getting 2 attacks that deal 2d6 apiece. there are weapons that make a 3rd attack with the same penalty and have better armor penetratiob while using less hands. like the Uzi or a gatling crossbow based on the Uzi Template. remember that both attacks eat the -2 and that you get one wild die. Exactly. Shooting two arrows isn't any more unbalanced than firing a full auto weapon or double tapping a handgun. SW is literally made for that kind of cinematic play. I'm not saying I wouldn't stop a player from doing something completely impossible "shoot a fireball under water." But I'm not going to stop them from doing things that there are literally rules for, just because in real life it wouldn't work. We play RPGs so we can do cool stuff we can't do in real life. If we're forsaking fun for realism, what's even the point.
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Post by ilina on Jan 16, 2017 11:49:28 GMT -8
throwing a fireball underwater would turn the thrown fireball into a thrown Steam Pocket that Scalds the Target for identical damage, but doesn't cause things to combust. likely has a -2 to the roll, but i would allow it. so the fire mage wasn't completely useless.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Jan 16, 2017 14:35:11 GMT -8
Manual of the Planes, 1st ed AD&D, has a whole section for spell interactions underwater, if anyone's interested.
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Post by ericfromnj on Jan 16, 2017 18:01:07 GMT -8
In short I've figured out how to manage what the PC wants to do. Thanks ilina for pointing out the rules. I have to say though, I honestly don't understand @stevensw rant. I know how bows work, archery is my other hobby. I've even tried the whole shooting two arrows thing in real life, and yeah, it doesn't go so well. But to tell a PC they can't do something in a fantasy setting because it doesn't work in real life would be stupider than allowing the trick shot. I'm not gonna tell the mage he can't shoot fire balls because fire doesn't behave like that and magic isn't real. Rule of cool. If the PC wants to do it, and it sounds cool and would make the table happy, I'll do my best to make it happen. Enjoy that can of worms you just opened. Either the move will suck, in which case it isn't rule of cool... or you just defined what the archer will want to do all the time. Double the damage for a small penalty to hit? Sign me up! Also, I'd have no problem saying no or 'yes, but' to someone wanting to use magic in a way that doesn't work. Fire doesn't burn underwater, so you need to do or sacrifice X in order to make that work. And having consistent rules for a setting makes it easier to understand and buy into. No one is saying you can't include fantasy element, but maybe stay away from the gonzo ones (unless that is the kind of game you run, in which case ... Whatever). You have said you are unfamiliar with Savage Worlds. Trust me when I say no penalty is small. Any pluses and minuses to the dice are huge. It is just how the mechanics work. As for the -2, while significant, does not rule out being a cool effect because if you catch someone out in the open, it makes perfect sense to do this. If the person you want to hit has dived for cover, unless you are a zen archery master (which is possible depending on how powerful the character is), you usually don't do something like that. Everything does not have to be one extreme or the other.
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Post by ilina on Jan 16, 2017 19:02:21 GMT -8
Savage Worlds uses die Sizes ranging from d4 to d12. even with the massive success increase for player characters in the form of the Wild Die. a modifier of +1 or -1 is massive, and most edges provide +2 to a few noncombat skills, or negate a circumstantial -2 penalty to a combat skill. the only edge that increases your damage applies specifically to unarmed combat, which requires a combined total of 3 edges to become a non-disarmable mini katana. Weekly William made the mistake of giving punches dagger damage and kicks shortsword damage for free. which lead to everybody carrying an assault rifle or other long gun because they can just kick.
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