HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 8, 2017 19:04:34 GMT -8
I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to.
When do PCs get a Bonus Action?
The PHB seems rather vague about the particulars. It states that characters can only take one Bonus Action on their turn, if they get one, and that certain class features may grant a Bonus Action. But that's all I can find.
I'll be playing a fighter in an upcoming game and am thinking about going with Two Weapon Fighting. The combat section says characters can make a second attack with a Bonus Action, but I don't see anything in the Fighter's class description that grants them a Bonus Action. With the rules about when characters get a Bonus Action fairly unclear, I don't know how often I'll be allowed to make a second attack as a first level fighter.
Can someone help me out here? Thanks.
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 8, 2017 19:22:50 GMT -8
Every one has the opportunity to take a Bonus Action, they just don't necessarily have something that can be used As a Bonus Action.
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mysticfedora
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Post by mysticfedora on Feb 8, 2017 20:03:51 GMT -8
I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to. When do PCs get a Bonus Action? The PHB seems rather vague about the particulars. It states that characters can only take one Bonus Action on their turn, if they get one, and that certain class features may grant a Bonus Action. But that's all I can find. I'll be playing a fighter in an upcoming game and am thinking about going with Two Weapon Fighting. The combat section says characters can make a second attack with a Bonus Action, but I don't see anything in the Fighter's class description that grants them a Bonus Action. With the rules about when characters get a Bonus Action fairly unclear, I don't know how often I'll be allowed to make a second attack as a first level fighter. Can someone help me out here? Thanks. Bonus actions are only given to PCs when specifically stipulated, usually through a class ability, spell, or some sort of special ability. They can be used anytime during your turn. As it relates to two-handed fighting, anyone who has a lighter weapon in an offhand can attack also with that weapon as a bonus attack, however they do not get the ability modifier to the damage roll (it just does whatever the weapon does). With the Two Weapon Fighting class ability you can use another weapon as a bonus attack AND you get the ability modifier (usually Str, but depends on melee vs. range, etc.) to the damage roll. So, in essence, you get two attacks (one for each weapon).
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 8, 2017 20:42:44 GMT -8
Thanks for that response mysticfedora. I don't see any Class Feature for a level one Fighter that grants a Bonus Action though. Does that mean I would be getting one only on very rare occasions?
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 8, 2017 20:52:37 GMT -8
Thanks for that response mysticfedora. I don't see any Class Feature for a level one Fighter that grants a Bonus Action though. Does that mean I would be getting one only on very rare occasions? No. Many character will end up with something.... Fighters, for instance, get Second Wind right at first level.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 8, 2017 21:21:05 GMT -8
OK. Now I'm confused. The free PHB rules say the following about Bonus Actions:
I read that as some abilities granting a character a Bonus Action. Not as all characters having a Bonus Action available at all times. I think the Cunning Action Rogue class feature backs that up.
The text says "you can take a Bonus Action on each of your turns in combat". Compare that with Second Wind:
The text says "you can use a Bonus Action". I don't read that as Second Wind granting the fighter a Bonus Action. I read it as "if you have a Bonus Action, you can do this thing".
Am I wrong?
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nanoboy
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Post by nanoboy on Feb 8, 2017 21:44:03 GMT -8
Every turn, you get one standard action, one bonus action, and one movement. (You also have one reaction you can use, most often for opportunity attacks.) Some classes like fighters can use their standard action to make multiple attacks when they reach a high enough level. Most spells use the standard action. Off-hand weapon attacks, some spells, and a bunch of class abilities consume bonus actions, but again, you only get one, so you can't make an off-hand attack and then use the rogue ability that allows you to use a bonus action for a dash. You generally only use movement to move some distance, usually up to 30 feet.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 8, 2017 21:58:56 GMT -8
Ok. I think I finally get this. Everyone gets a bonus action, along with a move and a standard action, on their turn. But only certain abilities or conditions allow you to use that bonus action. The paragraph in the Combat Section about two weapon fighting finally made that clear. So, for two weapon fighting, taking an Attack Action with a one-handed light melee weapon while holding another one-handed light melee weapon in your other hand is the trigger allowing you to spend your bonus action on a second attack. Got it. Thanks very much guys. I swear I'm not normally this dense. It's just that all those kumbaya narrative hippie games have softened my brain for hard crunch.
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 8, 2017 23:30:28 GMT -8
Yup, you got it exactly. ^.^
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Post by lowkeyoh on Feb 8, 2017 23:47:43 GMT -8
So you basically have the gist down, but I'll break things down a bit further just in case/for prosperity. One of the main design choices for a game system is it's action economy, or simply 'what exactly can you do in one turn'
In Shadowrun, you get one complex action or two simple actions. In Urban Shadows, generally you can only perform one move at a time, even though the action economy is less strict. In Pathfinder you have a Move Action, a Standard Action, a Swift Action, and Free Actions.
Consider this: Right now in my Pathfinder game I have a Bard/Cleric that can grant a bonus to the party by singing, cast a spell as a standard action, and then use an item that lets him cast another spell as a swift action. The second turn he casts another spell as a standard action, uses a free action to activate a magic item that lets him read a scroll as a move action, and uses another swift action to cast another spell.
In two rounds he's cast two 6~th level spells, two 2nd level spells, started a bardic performance, and used a scroll. This is a much more powerful opening than having to spend a turn doing all of those things, especially when fights are generally over by the 7th round.
This sort of wielding of the action economy as a weapon is very common in Pathfinder. In Pathfinder, especially at the higher levels, you are expected understand rule interactions and optimize the best courses of action. It's, in my opinion, fundimental to building a 'strong' character. As an aside, this is not the 'right' way to play nor is it more rewarding than other styles of play, but Pathfinder is a crunch heavy game and as such rewards players for wielding that crunch well.
One of the design elements of D&D5e is to simplify the action economy and make it easier. As a character, on your turn you get to make an action and/or use a bonus action. Once per round, on your turn or not on your turn, you may use a reaction. Movement is no longer an action.
What counts as an action is fairly well defined. The list is on 192 (Attack, Cast, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Ready, Search, Use an Object)
Reactions and Bonus actions are going to be more strictly defined. You're generally not going to improvise a reaction or a bonus action.
Bonus actions are fast things that the game wants to let you be able to do and still take an action on your turn. Barbarians can use their Rage ability and enter a rage as a bonus action. This still lets them take a regular action on their turn. Bards get to use their inspiration as a bonus action, meaning they can inspire and cast or attack in the same round.
Two Weapon Fighting, however, is not an ability that comes from any class feature but rather one that's baked right into the standard crunch of the game. Any class, character, NPC, etc that takes the Attack action with a light weapon in each hand may spend their bonus action to make another attack with their offhand.
But you only get one bonus action a turn. If you're a rogue, you can't use Cunning Action AND attack with your offhand. Barbarians can't rage AND attack with their offhand.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 9, 2017 0:25:06 GMT -8
Thanks for that lowkeyoh. I understand what bonus actions do, I just think the wording on page 69 of the free PHB about how you get them was clear as fucking mud. Saying that various class features, spells, and other abilities "let you take a bonus action" sounds like you don't normally get one. Hence my confusion with the fighter's Second Wind class feature. If I don't normally get a bonus action and this feature only allows me to spend one, well, where do I get bonus action to spend? I feel they really should have said something like "everyone gets a bonus action, but you can only spend a bonus action on certain class features, spells, and abilities". That would have been a whole lot fucking clearer.
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Post by ilina on Feb 9, 2017 3:53:12 GMT -8
most classes have a better use for a bonus action than an unmodified 1d6 scimitar. and even if you added your dex mod to damage and had 2 +3 Scimitars. your offhand at most, is dealing d6+8. which by the level you can do it, isn't as competitive with your opponents as other uses of a bonus action that provide utility. by the time you deal 1d6+8 with your offhand. a defense that can automatically undo a critical hit against you will work better.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 9, 2017 5:39:49 GMT -8
So... You're saying a two-weapon fighter sucks, and that I shouldn't do it. Thanks for dropping your pants, popping a squat, and taking a massive shit all over my idea ilina. That's really cool.
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nanoboy
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Post by nanoboy on Feb 9, 2017 7:25:10 GMT -8
Two-weapon fighters (and rangers and rogues) work fine, though they don't always use their bonus attack, as they may be better off in the moment doing something else.
For rogues especially, the bonus attack is really helpful, because it can give them a second chance at sneak attack damage.
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mysticfedora
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Post by mysticfedora on Feb 9, 2017 7:35:53 GMT -8
So... You're saying a two-weapon fighter sucks, and that I shouldn't do it. Thanks for dropping your pants, popping a squat, and taking a massive shit all over my idea ilina . That's really cool. Two-weapon fighters don't suck. She's comparing apples and oranges. It's just like anything in this genre, you're basically trading off more damage for less AC (assuming you'd use a shield). Most of the time you wouldn't use your bonus action for anything else anyway. EDIT: This assuming you take the fighter class ability two-handed fighting. Then you'll get your damage bonus.
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