arnej
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: GURPS, Hero, Blades in the Dark, DnD 5e
Currently Playing: GURPS, Hero, DnD 5e
Currently Running: Blades in the Dark
Favorite Species of Monkey: Pygmy Marmoset
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Post by arnej on Feb 13, 2017 15:37:18 GMT -8
So we all know that there are check boxes on your character sheet to keep track of death checks.
My question is: Does it ever say how (or if) those checks get unchecked?
Personally, I think it would add a very interesting flavor to the game if they didn't get unchecked. You survive a brush with death, but are closer to shuffling off this mortal coil than you were before. Would you play your character differently if you only had one box left?
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Post by ilina on Feb 13, 2017 19:23:50 GMT -8
they get unchecked the moment you become conscious or the moment you rest. whether successes or failures. and you don't have to roll them if somebody stabilizes you.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 13, 2017 23:31:59 GMT -8
Oh wow. If a Death Checkboxes never cleared, that would make the game very different.
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Post by lowkeyoh on Feb 14, 2017 0:04:57 GMT -8
If you want to make the game a bit deadlier, have the check boxes only clear on a rest, short or long.
Then throw a dozen banshees at the party
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Post by uselesstriviaman on Feb 14, 2017 13:43:30 GMT -8
If you want to make the game a bit deadlier, have the check boxes only clear on a rest, short or long. Then throw a dozen banshees at the party Man, you are a dick.
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Post by lowkeyoh on Feb 14, 2017 22:38:22 GMT -8
Banshee's aside, having death checks only clear on short rests means that, even if someone is healed in the middle of a fight, going under 0 puts you closer to death's door than staying healthy. And that event carries more weight than just *boop* you're cured. The tension of dropping back down to 0 HP is a lot greater when you have to roll three successes to stabilize and one failure is death. This also increases the usefulness of the cantrip 'stabilize' and healing kits because now stabilization is a really important concept. This is going to change the flavor of the game. Do you want it to be super gritty? Because falling to 0 with two death checks in the bank means that a character is statistically going to die. Tweaking the death check rules without changing anything else is going to result in death checks carrying a lot more weight, but also a lot more dead PCs. The tweak that I'd use is to lower the number needed to succeed a death check. Maybe make it 7 or 8+ instead of 10+ Now players are statistically more likely to roll successes than fails, but those fails still sting really badly. At 7+ instead of 10+ your likelihood of stabilizing without assistance from two failed deathchecks simply using the dice increases from a 12.5% success rate to a 34.3% success rate, which I feel like is the right call. At a 5+ you're dealing with a 51.2% of stabilizing vs dying with two failed saves in the bank. If you want to keep your players hovering around 0 and make deathchecks sting without having to worry about EVERYONE dying, maybe that's your mark. Stu Venable has expressed the opinion that it's hard to kill characters in 5e, which is right and wrong. It's really easy to kill characters in 5e, you just have to be the douchebag GM that attacks players when they're down. I personally have never found it tasteful to be gunning for character death but maybe when the goblin swings and knocks the wizard to 0 HP he bonus actions to bite him while he's going down. Now the Wizard is looking for three successes with one fail in the bank. My 5e campaign that I ran for a year when it came out was stock D&D. It was to experience the system as written and gauge our opinions of it. We had maybe four PC deaths. The game I'm running now is super narrative and high heroic fantasy. I wouldn't dream of changing the death rules to make the game grittier. However, if I was running my old game now I'd probably clear death save fails on a rest and make stabilization an 8+.
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Post by ilina on Feb 14, 2017 23:15:07 GMT -8
i would allow the failures to reset when the character gets thier 3 successes as normal. it gives a bit of a buffer against death and stabilize is still useful in a pinch, as are healing spells. but if the failures only reset on a rest, stabilize becomes a mandatory cantrip for clerics and healers kits become mandatory items instead of the 2 just being really nice to have. and yes, there is a feat that grants a benefit to healer's kits by allowing them to be used to actually heal.
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Post by kurtpotts on Feb 15, 2017 10:54:42 GMT -8
I could see some interesting things being tied to having boxes checked. What if something was waiting just on the other side of the veil and every time you fail a death save you let it a little closer.
First failed save: You can hear whispers and you think a shadow might be following you. Your connection with the veil grants you a cantrip from the necromancy school and allows you to cast speak with dead once per long rest.
Second failed save: The reaper is ever present. She calls to you in the night and is never far behind you. Your stronger connection with the veil allows you to draw on more of it's energy. You can cast false-life at will at first level and cast misty step once per long rest as you pass through the veil to appear in another location.
Maybe raise dead only removes a failed check so there is a way, be it costly, to remove failed checks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 0:45:41 GMT -8
Here is an idea I stole from battletech. Choose one of the following:
1) Force a death save on every critical hit. Do double damage as normal. Death saves return at a rate of 1 per short rest and 2 per long rest (these numbers may need tweaking).
2) Every critical causes a failed death save, but no extra damage. Death saves return as above.
These introduce a type of damage the players cannot mitigate and causes tension by allowing players to be closer to death (even so far as reaching it), without ever dropping. It also allows the game to be more lethal without ever needing to attack players once they are down.
For those curious, mechs in Battletech have armor you have to get through before you can get to the internal structure (where critical damage is normally done). Armor is much like HP in that losing it doesn't really do anything, however, there are some locations that allow you to check for a critical hit before you blow through all the armor. Thus you are always at risk of taking a critical which could lead to your destruction (3 criticals to the fusion engine and mech goes BOOM!).
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Feb 16, 2017 7:08:30 GMT -8
I think it just depends how deadly you want the game to be. The default setting is for "not very deadly," and you can ramp it up from there. Would you play your character differently if you only had one box left? Absolutely, but for some groups/players, the "differently" would not be an improvement. Some people need the threat of death to feel like the game matters. Some people find that frequently risking character death adds to the thrill of playing. Some people find that frequently risking character death only makes the game more stressful. Some people will be so afraid of character death that they'll hardly do anything, and will spend ridiculous amounts of time taking precautions before every action.
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Post by chronovore on Feb 27, 2017 1:36:55 GMT -8
If I made death more likely in any game, most of my players would turtle up quickly.
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Post by chronovore on Feb 27, 2017 1:41:12 GMT -8
Also meant to say: in our DnD 5e game, we had an NPC who needed rescuing, they were bound in place, and were being attacked by the dungeon's main bad guy. One PC was immediately adjacent to both the NPC and the big-bad, and was administering a health potion after each time the big-bad attacked the NPC, necessitating a death check.
The potion brought the NPC positive and cleared the death check.
The big-bad attacked again.
The PC administered a potion.
I'm not even vaguely aware of if this is correct application of the rules, but it was somewhere between hilarious, morbid, and immersion-destroying for me. It was the kind of silliness that not only wouldn't work IRL, but doesn't even make for entertaining fiction.
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Post by ilina on Feb 27, 2017 13:43:27 GMT -8
5e characters aren't normal people. they at the very least, have grand destinies and better than average statistics, already separated from the norm. they have the benefit of being protagonists. and well, they seem to be akin to Quentin Tarantino Movie or Shonen Anime heroes. Think of Stuff Ranging from Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill and Django from Django unchained to stuff like Son Goku/Sun Wukong from Chinese Mythology, Son Goku from the Dragon Ball Series, Chun Hyang from Korean History, Wong Kei Ying from Chinese History, or Miyomoto Masashi from Japanese History.
even as 1st level apprentices, player characters are friggin super prodigies. most NPCs are lucky to have a 12 or 13 in the attribute they are good at. player characters have what usually amounts to between a 14 and a 17. and they grow in combat ability by taking risks, most city guards don't advance much because they take the same routine risks they are optimized to deal with.
so essentially, if you think of a Lot of Shonen Anime, then yes, a single healing potion will save the unconscious dying dude from having to Pay Charon, because Death is Cheap in any Edition of D&D after 2nd. at worst, being resurrected costs you a bunch of diamonds and a negative level or few that can be cured with restorations. and unless you get hit by one attack that deals double your maximum health plus one in damage, you generally aren't dying. because zero is still a number. meaning a first level rogue with 8 HP needs to be hit for 18 Damage to Die outright, because they need to be negative 9 from one attack to die,
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