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Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Mar 19, 2017 11:17:44 GMT -8
I would say that Tzimisce are a clan that embraces the least often and with the most intent. They also already have a lot of stock to choose from with their Revenants and Ghouls. They have a long time to mold that hatred into them and I see it just like any hate group would mold their ideals into an individual. I've always seen vampires taking a very cult like approach to raising Childer, with the exception of Gangrel, since they're content on being absentee parents, but even that relationship can take on the same aspect given enough time. A good link for what I'm talk about: people.howstuffworks.com/cult4.htmI'm on mobile or I'd link it properly. Wakefield
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Post by Wakefield on Mar 19, 2017 11:45:50 GMT -8
That's about what I figured. So most Sires with an interest in "parenting" would succeed in drilling much of the clan ideology into their Childer's heads, as long as their Childer didn't put up determined resistance - though there are ways of disciplining that as well. I was curious as to whether particular bloodlines would feel instinctive hatred of other bloodlines in their presence, perhaps without quite understanding why if not properly educated on Kindred history. Great, this is all coming together.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 0:55:47 GMT -8
So I have not checked out the Tzimisce clan weakness for V20 so this may be out of date advice but the way I've seen players and storytellers get around that is that they used Vicissitude to create a pouch within themselves to hold the dirt. You're going to make me quote Steve Long, aren't you? Since taking a refund on your clan weakness isn't an option, you can't weasle your way out of it. Remember, this isn't some biological imperative, its a mystical thing. If you need to sleep in dirt from your homeland, sleeping with dirt from your homeland inside you won't help. Also, don't pitch an antitribu character for a sabbat game. No one likes a special snowflake. You are making everything harder for everyone in the game. Stop it. Pick a camarilla (or possibly an independent one) clan, or play in a sabbat game. Making plans for how you are going to deceive everyone or earn their trust is a crock of crap. You are thinking about you and not what is best for the game as a whole. The result of you continuing on with the character is likely going to be you getting kicked out of the group or your character killed*. *You might as well take the flaw 'Red List', because it's open season on that character. Anyone can take a swing and just claim they thought your were a sabbat spy. And this asumes the prince doesn't torch your ass just for existing.
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Post by Wakefield on Mar 20, 2017 7:06:37 GMT -8
Firstly, is there any particular reason you waited until the fourth page of helpful and encouraging posts (thanks again, everyone) to rain on the parade? You're kind of coming off as a killjoy. Secondly, the Lore of Clans supplement devotes a great many pages to fleshing out Antitribu and factions for each Clan, which, if anything, suggests players have been interested in having more information about these character concepts. Furthermore, several of the sample concepts (Locked in the Ivory Tower, the Caitiff passing as a member of a clan) are based off of deceiving one's community long enough either to prove one's worth or to escape. I get that these characters are rare, but as concepts, they hardly seem special snowflake. Insofar as I want to play this character to get closure, yeah, I'm being selfish. But neither do I want to be the guy who makes the chronicle all about his character or ruins everyone else's fun. I would still check with other players and the ST and ultimately bow to their ruling. Maybe I'll find no one wants to play with this character, and then I'll cry in a corner or whatever. But I'm excited to play him, and I'll at least see if other folks would be willing to play with me. In any case, if we're ever in a game together, let me know, so I can be sure to avoid frustrating you. Thirdly, I would be absolutely fine with my character getting killed. Like I said, it's about closure. But if anything, being Red List sounds even more special snowflaky and attention-hogging to me.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Mar 20, 2017 7:20:40 GMT -8
Firstly, is there any particular reason you waited until the fourth page of helpful and encouraging posts (thanks again, everyone) to rain on the parade? You're kind of coming off as a killjoy. It's kind of his thing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2017 17:13:55 GMT -8
Firstly, is there any particular reason you waited until the fourth page of helpful and encouraging posts (thanks again, everyone) to rain on the parade? You're kind of coming off as a killjoy. That's when I read it? I don't read every post on all sections of the forum every day. I'm more active in the general and episode specific sections.
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Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Mar 21, 2017 8:13:30 GMT -8
Ah yes, I was wondering when I'd see someone start posting "my way to play is the only way". It's not your group and it's not your game, so get over it.
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Post by Probie Tim on Mar 22, 2017 5:33:22 GMT -8
Also, don't pitch an antitribu character for a sabbat game. No one likes a special snowflake. You are making everything harder for everyone in the game. Stop it. While I've made my personal views on antitribu characters clear elsewhere in this thread, I think that's a decision to be made between the players and the GM, not a bunch of random people on an internet forum. If they're all good with the idea, for their game and play-style, then that's all that matters.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 23:47:55 GMT -8
Ah yes, I was wondering when I'd see someone start posting "my way to play is the only way". It's not your group and it's not your game, so get over it. What a cop out. By that bit of advice, none of you can say anything on any subject other than, 'Well I don't know, it is your group." Here is what I know: 1) Most GM's ban snowflake options. 2) Those that don't have a high rate of player attrition or game failure. The biggest lie of roleplaying is, "You can be anything you want!", which is horseshit. No, you can't be a ninja. This is just another version of ninja syndrome.
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Post by Probie Tim on Mar 23, 2017 6:03:45 GMT -8
This is just another version of ninja syndrome. Except for when ninjas are included in the core rule book for a game. Then you can play a ninja. Just like antitribu are included in the main V:tM rulebook. As a matter of fact, V20 specifically supports the idea*. Antitribu are covered in Chapter 10, "Bloodlines", and the opening paragraphs have this to say: "It could be argued, then, that a player who creates such a character is just trying to be “more unique” than other vampires. Possibly, but so what? If the goal is to tell a compelling story, to focus on the characters that are, by default, more interesting than any others (that is, your characters), then why not create something that doesn’t exist anywhere else? If you feel compelled to play a Blood Brother that has somehow broken the bonds of the circle and achieved autonomy, then do it (with Storyteller approval). Just be aware that doing so makes a statement about the World of Darkness that playing a Toreador painter does not — and maybe that’s not a bad thing." If I were running the One Ring, and someone asked to be a ninja, you'd be right. But if I was running V:tM and someone asked to play an antitribu character, that's a completely different ball of wax. Unless, like, I prefaced the invitation to the game with a qualifier such as "I'm running a game focused around the core 7 Camarilla clans" or the like. ~~~~ * I will concede that the focus of this thread - Tzimisce Antitribu - does not appear in the rule book. However, given the opening paragraphs of chapter 10, I would include it in the "then do it (with Storyteller approval)" clause.
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Post by Stu Venable on Mar 23, 2017 7:17:21 GMT -8
Yup. You beat me to it.
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Post by Probie Tim on Mar 23, 2017 7:21:57 GMT -8
What can I say? I'm fast. ...like a ninja.
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Post by Wakefield on Mar 23, 2017 8:37:02 GMT -8
Honestly, my curiosity about Tzimisce Antitribu came from an interest in exploring Vicissitude's potential for beneficial medical applications - from the literature I've been reading, it appears massively overlooked. The idea of a Kindred who uses Vicissitude to heal or perform cosmetic surgery (while attempting, perhaps futilely, to maintain a high Humanity score) is a character concept that I find compelling. And as far as I can tell, Kindred don't maintain high Humanity for long in the Sabbat. It just seemed more Camarilla to me. (And if he becomes a wealthy and sought-after surgeon, plastic or otherwise, and can Ghoul important people while they're under the knife, he could become an asset to the Camarilla, too.)
After reading the V20 Lore of Clans book, the path of the Neofeudalist Tzimisce also seemed like a good end goal. As a mortal, the character was the heir to an ancestral estate, and so it could be a long-term aim to reclaim it (and to reward any Kindred willing to help him along the way). That story arc would probably make his association with the Cam or Anarchs a more temporary alliance. Perhaps they would be willing to leave him alone in exchange for his agreement to use his estate as a buffer against Sabbat incursions. By that point I would be ready to retire him to NPC status. But I have my doubts on whether an ST would go for that one.
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Post by sovereigncitizenkane on Mar 23, 2017 8:49:09 GMT -8
Ah yes, I was wondering when I'd see someone start posting "my way to play is the only way". It's not your group and it's not your game, so get over it. What a cop out. By that bit of advice, none of you can say anything on any subject other than, 'Well I don't know, it is your group." Here is what I know: 1) Most GM's ban snowflake options. 2) Those that don't have a high rate of player attrition or game failure. The biggest lie of roleplaying is, "You can be anything you want!", which is horseshit. No, you can't be a ninja. This is just another version of ninja syndrome. There's no need to address the tantrum of a petulant child other than to tell them to go to the corner. Your constant whining about how people aren't playing the game your way is bothersome at best. And no, there's nothing in what I said that follows your line of logic. I address to Wakefield why there are no real Tzimisce Antitribu, and then I offered possibilities. We had a discussion. You on the other hand, threw a hissy fit because his idea didn't measure up to your personal standards. You didn't offer discussion or critique, just insults and vitriol. You neither know, nor speak for most GMs so stop trying to be a setting lawyer and realize that that it's a hobby and you need to chill out.
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Post by Wakefield on Mar 23, 2017 9:13:44 GMT -8
The biggest lie of roleplaying is, "You can be anything you want!", which is horseshit. No, you can't be a ninja. This is just another version of ninja syndrome. Relax, man. If playing this character would mean pissing off other players or the ST, I wouldn't do it. (Though maybe I would run a game later where he makes an appearance as an NPC, and maybe that would be best anyway.) I'm not here to ruin anyone's fun. But it sounds as if you might be. I'm pretty sure one of roleplaying's big appeals for many of us is exactly the opportunity to get to be, within reason, characters we want to play. If you've convinced yourself and your fellow players that creative character concepts are a sin even when they fit within the established setting, I find that profoundly sad.
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