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Post by kurtpotts on May 10, 2017 13:40:12 GMT -8
cast Silence on a copper coin, and have a sprite familiar fly around holding the coin. note that this only works if you have an intelligent familiar with a fly speed, such as a sprite, pixie, imp or mephit or at the very least, a highly intelligent hawk, butterfly or raven. That was my first thought, but it looks like they changed it in 5e so you have to target an area not an object or person.
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Post by ilina on May 10, 2017 14:19:28 GMT -8
cast Silence on a copper coin, and have a sprite familiar fly around holding the coin. note that this only works if you have an intelligent familiar with a fly speed, such as a sprite, pixie, imp or mephit or at the very least, a highly intelligent hawk, butterfly or raven. That was my first thought, but it looks like they changed it in 5e so you have to target an area not an object or person. they must have changed Silence to remove that Tactic and thus nerf the only good thing that came from the damned spell. it was a great way to fuck over enemy spellcasters. if i ran a 5e game, i would allow you to cast Silence on an Object or Creature, such as the coin being carried by your sprite familiar.
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tyler
Journeyman Douchebag
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Post by tyler on May 11, 2017 7:10:14 GMT -8
I'd rather not try to counter the DM's counter to the effects he clearly doesn't like. A 20th level wizard doubling his spells slots is a HUGE shake up (Especially since I could do it twice per long rest now) so I'd rather change my tactics to something that is still powerful, but not so obviously powerful it makes me a target. So my goals in combat will now be: Control - lots of wall spells, and any CC that doesn't allow for saves (because I really, really hate save or nothing spells.) Damage - I think this is what my DM was expecting when I shifted to play a wizard. I've got the Loremaster archetype, so my energy spells can be of any type, making me one of the more effective damage dealers in the party.
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tyler
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Post by tyler on May 11, 2017 7:12:22 GMT -8
cast Silence on a copper coin, and have a sprite familiar fly around holding the coin. note that this only works if you have an intelligent familiar with a fly speed, such as a sprite, pixie, imp or mephit or at the very least, a highly intelligent hawk, butterfly or raven. That was my first thought, but it looks like they changed it in 5e so you have to target an area not an object or person. Also, Silence isn't a wizard spell. Bards, Clerics, and Rangers all get it, but not Wizards.
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Post by kurtpotts on May 11, 2017 7:34:23 GMT -8
That was my first thought, but it looks like they changed it in 5e so you have to target an area not an object or person. Also, Silence isn't a wizard spell. Bards, Clerics, and Rangers all get it, but not Wizards. Oh man I totally assumed it was on the wizard list.
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tyler
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Post by tyler on May 11, 2017 7:44:07 GMT -8
Until about 30 seconds before I posted that, I assumed it was as well.
I did realize that since I'm a Loremaster, I can extend the range of a spell out to a mile, by burning an extra 2nd level spell slot. So, for a 9th and 2nd level slot, I can hit an enemy with 9d12 damage of any type for 10 rounds. So that's a nice start to damage tricks.
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Post by kurtpotts on May 11, 2017 8:01:54 GMT -8
Looks like your level 14 Loremaster feature would let you pluck silence in an emergency. Probably better options at that point though.
This archetype seems cool, but keeping track of every possible spell seems a little daunting.
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tyler
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Post by tyler on May 11, 2017 9:48:27 GMT -8
Looks like your level 14 Loremaster feature would let you pluck silence in an emergency. Probably better options at that point though. This archetype seems cool, but keeping track of every possible spell seems a little daunting. You get one a day, so it's highly likely that it will always be held in reserve for a resurrection.
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Post by ilina on May 11, 2017 12:54:22 GMT -8
Direct Damage from a Wizard is actually Expected in 5e. Especially Area of Effect burst damage. 5e nerfed battlefield control, crowd control, summons, debuffs, and just about anything that wasn't direct damage output. they also removed the ability of specialist wizards to poach spells of their specialty school from the lists of other classes, which was the very thing that allowed necromancers to cast healing spells.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 3:54:30 GMT -8
So, thanks to the entire rest of the internet, I realized the power of a simulacrum. We've been 20th level for awhile, so the DM gave us the option to take an Epic Boon from the DMG. I took the one that gives me an extra 9th level spell slot. So I used one of my 9th level spells to cast Wish to cast Simulacrum on myself, giving me a second 20th level wizard, with full spell slots. The DM was NOT pleased. After I used a few of the simulacrum's spells, I could tell he was annoyed at me doubling my output, so I decided to true polymorph my simulacrum into a mount. He was about as happy with that (as I now had an ancient brass dragon mount) as he was with the stack of extra spell slots I had given myself. So, a few rounds of devastating use of the brass dragon's breath weapons, NPCs were suddenly aware of the fact that they could cast Dispel Magic. One round later, my dragon was gone. Unfortunately, this means that Simulacrum will probably never be effective again, because as soon as it is out, it'll be a target for dispelling. Also, because the DM really realized the effectiveness of Dispel Magic on wizard spells with a duration, Shapechange and True Polymorph are now less effective as well. Looks like I'm going full Direct Damage next time! I'm reminded of an article about avengers from 4E called "Making them Behave Badly". You see, avengers worked best when chasing, so you had to find ways to make the enemy want to run away from you. So, I put forth to you that you have a way to force the GM into trying to dispel your magic. Find a way to make that a disaster for them. Maybe some kind of explosive runes or something that will trigger when they try to dispel your simulacrum. Or maybe just a giant boulder on top of a brass dragon so that if they dispel the dragon, the boulder falls on them. "I have you now! Dispel Magic! ... Oh Shi-!", the last words of a wizard who had spent his action to dispel and got caught in the lake of alchemists fire which was real and being carried by said dragon. Of course, never forget that a good illusion is never suspected. Maybe you should make the simulacrum look like your chamber pot boy and only have him use magic when he can't be observed. Maybe find a magic item or spell that will make him seem mundane. I'm not really familiar with the ins and outs of 5E, but hopefully this gives you an idea of at least some small trick you can play on your GM, based on how you know he will behave.
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tyler
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Post by tyler on May 12, 2017 8:13:08 GMT -8
I don't plan on trying to cast Simulacrum ever again. The DM clearly feels that it's too powerful, and any attempt by me to circumvent his ability to handle that power will only create conflict and tension between real people.
I'm more than happy to go the full direct damage route and just obliterate the opposition that way. Which will actually only serve to highlight how incredibly powerful simulacrum is.
So, Meteor Swarms away!
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Post by ilina on May 12, 2017 18:10:07 GMT -8
Simulacrum is a powerful spell but it is a high level spell. your GM shouldn't be running 20th level games if he can't deal with standard 20th level protocol. Simulacrum is mandatory for 20th level adventures, as are several other game breaking spells like wish, true resurrection, planar ally, planar binding, gate. and the whole gamut of 20th level "i win buttons" because 20th level plays completely differently from the 19 levels before it. if you can't readily prepare for the broken stuff a 20th level caster should do, you shouldn't be playing or running a 20th level game. the big reason i don't play 20th level is because i can't handle or challenge the 20th level crazy shit when 10th-12th level is already challenging enough for me to handle. when you run a 20th level adventure, expect 20th level characters to use 20th level tactics.
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tyler
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Post by tyler on May 13, 2017 9:11:42 GMT -8
Simulacrum is a powerful spell but it is a high level spell. your GM shouldn't be running 20th level games if he can't deal with standard 20th level protocol. Simulacrum is mandatory for 20th level adventures, as are several other game breaking spells like wish, true resurrection, planar ally, planar binding, gate. and the whole gamut of 20th level "i win buttons" because 20th level plays completely differently from the 19 levels before it. if you can't readily prepare for the broken stuff a 20th level caster should do, you shouldn't be playing or running a 20th level game. the big reason i don't play 20th level is because i can't handle or challenge the 20th level crazy shit when 10th-12th level is already challenging enough for me to handle. when you run a 20th level adventure, expect 20th level characters to use 20th level tactics. And he absolutely CAN deal with it, it's just that things like Simulacrum, True Polymorph, and Shapeshift can all be dealt with REALLY easily, with a simple Dispel. Dispel is the easiest, most efficient way to handle those spells, because ONE cast of Dispel can take care of every spell on the target. So, instead, I'll go with control spells that don't offer a save, or damage spells that offer a save for half. We are currently fighting a lot of things with legendary resistances, so they can auto save a few times per day, which means softening them up with lower level spells, like Slow.
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Post by ilina on May 14, 2017 0:14:30 GMT -8
spamming dispel isn't technically dealing with 20th level tactics. embracing 20th level tactics and employing 20th level tactics yourself would be a better solution. because higher level dispels still eat higher slots. meaning the caster is wasting time and energy undoing things, rather than creating their own things.
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tyler
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Post by tyler on May 15, 2017 7:12:39 GMT -8
spamming dispel isn't technically dealing with 20th level tactics. embracing 20th level tactics and employing 20th level tactics yourself would be a better solution. because higher level dispels still eat higher slots. meaning the caster is wasting time and energy undoing things, rather than creating their own things. Spamming dispel is absolutely dealing with the tactics. It's boring and repetitive, but it's still dealing with them easily and efficiently. It's a tactic (along with a high number of legendary resists) that I and the other players now have to figure out how to work around. Currently, that means a lot of instant effects, and using lower level spells to blow through those resists. Also, I've done the simulacrum thing in one game so far, against NPCs that are primarily spellcasters. So those guys using lots of dispels makes sense. I'll have to revisit Simularcum later on, when we are fighting less magically inclined enemies, and see what the response is.
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