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Post by mook on Sept 17, 2017 5:38:40 GMT -8
Also, Wildcards versus Talents. I mean...why. Why have two different mechanics to do basically the same thing. I mean AAAARGH. Just to split a hair, they do accomplish slightly different goals. Talents assume you are using the normal skill list and give bonuses to a specific set of skills, all still listed on the character sheet. Wildcard Skills actually replace other skills, i.e., you can build a character with only 4-5 Wildcard Skills instead of dozens of individual skills. Similar end results, but different mechanisms. Which one to use depends on what the GM is trying to accomplish (giving bonuses to closely related skills or cutting back the default skill list). Examples from some of my past convention games: Special Forces operatives infiltrating a hostile country, talents and many dozens of discrete skills; Bunnies setting off on a mission to aid another wounded bunny, broad Wildcard skills focusing solely on the things they're very good at. Also, I only just realised blowthrough is a thing? Which mitigates instadeath somewhat I guess... It is indeed! Any damage over what it takes to cripple a limb (HP/2) or extremity (HP/3) is ignored... you can take 47 points of cutting damage to the torso, but not the arm or foot (though you won't have much of an arm or foot left).
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 18, 2017 3:02:39 GMT -8
Is running a "Wildcards only" game an option?
I admit, I'm still trying to decide what's the least effort; making GURPS less lethal or porting GURPS advantages over to WEG d6. ;-)
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Post by mook on Sept 18, 2017 20:28:56 GMT -8
Is running a "Wildcards only" game an option? Sure, depending on the game and kind of vibe you're looking for. Like, you could just use the 18 skills from Fate Core as Wildcard skills in your GURPS game. Or the 25 skill categories from the (free) GURPS Skill Categories PDF. But naturally those will play very differently -- much 'looser,' more on the fly, less 'gritty' -- than using the default skill system. They're not fully Wildcards only, but note the differences in the characters from games like " Beware the Boogeyman" or " Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow" vs. something like any of these CIA SOG operatives (note that for a game like that, running for those new to GURPS, I had a much simpler sheet with only the most important info, then the full sheet with all the behind the scenes stuff).
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 19, 2017 3:15:45 GMT -8
Okay, one more annoying question; sell me on second by second combat. I feel like using an Exalted 2e 'tick wheel' might be a good way of going about it...
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Post by mook on Sept 19, 2017 8:50:41 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 15:46:56 GMT -8
Savage Worlds...I don't get the popularity. The core dice mechanic absolutely sucks (just look at a probability graph of d4 through d12 skill next to almost any other RPG and you'll see what I mean). From my experience with SW, the popularity is the ease. Pretty straight forward, minimal calculations, go for it. I think it's a work towards Fate Core, for example, for people who don't want crunch, who don't need so much minutiae. Plus, a decent amount of people don't have the time or effort to sit and number crunch. I don't really factor probabilities into my gaming in that regard; I want to have fun with my friends, not crunch numbers. I mean, look at d20 - flat 5% chance either way of ultimate success or failure. A flat 5% of any number.On a side note, reminded me of John Wick's reworking of d20, where he ditches the d20 just because of that and basically anything that gives you a +1 in 3.X (be it stats or BAB etc) instead gives you a d6 towards your pool.#ramble
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 19, 2017 23:56:01 GMT -8
You might want to fix the quotes on that one! I'm reading Wick's d20 now by the way. XD And I do get why Savage Worlds is popular, I just think there's plenty of better AND as simple or simpler systems out there whose core dice mechanic isn't so utterly unsatisfying. But again, if that doesn't bother you (and I'm clearly in the minority) then I'm not about to gainsay the Happy Jacks truism of "there is no bad fun!" I just...it's not satisfying to have a character with a d12 not be noticeably more effective than a character with a d6. For me, anyway. =) Edit: Oh my god, John Wick hates literally everything I hate about d20 and I must keep reading
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 21, 2017 2:40:25 GMT -8
So this whole discussion (added to which was me discovering Mutants and Masterminds 3e just to add ANOTHER option to my list) has really made me think about why I'm resisting using GURPS. I can sum my thoughts up in two parts.
I think the thing for me is that death and lethality are deeply important topics when deciding on a roleplay system. I know there are advocated of a 'let the dice fall where they may' approach - I'm not one of them. For me, a death without narrative consequence is somewhat of a waste of a character. I've done both; deaths of random chance and little consequence, and deaths I chose because they felt right for the character. GURPS as written falls firmly into the 'dice fall where they may' category, and I'm resisting this.
The realism of the injuries themselves, however, has grown on me after some time examining the works of fiction I enjoy. When characters are hurt, they tend to be hurt badly, but they get hurt when the narrative makes it appropriate for them to be hurt. My early gaming friends used to refer to hit points as a character's "hero aura" and while I don't think hit points is a good way to represent such a thing, I think the idea is certainly sound.
So put these two together and I think what I want out of a system is:
A way for the characters to 'opt out' of stupid random injury and accident Ease of on-the-fly GMing Characterisation mechanics beyond combat abilities (merits and flaws, complications etc) Versatility in mechanical design
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Post by Probie Tim on Sept 21, 2017 5:16:17 GMT -8
a Fate hack I ended up spontaneously making in my head as a result of this aforementioned search. So... if you're already toying with a Fate hack, why not grab Fudge (or Mook's MUDGE) and hack it into exactly what you're looking for? Fate came from Fudge, and the 10th Anniversary Edition of Fudge has SO MUCH information on making Fudge do what you want it to do. Fudge can be as crunchy or as smooth as you'd like it to be. For combat, for instance, you could easily implement two skills (fighting and shooting), skill "groups" (firearms, swords, bows, clubs, etc), or individual combat skills (claymore, shotgun, crossbow, pistol, dodge, etc). Similarly, for gear, you can customize it as much as you want. Chain mail armor might be DDF (defensive damage factor) +2 against bashing attacks, but only +1 against piercing attacks. High-tech blaster-resistant vests might be +4 DDF against energy beams, but +0 DDF against bashing attacks. Then you could classify weapons as bashing, piercing, beam, etc. If you're happy with Fate, but you want more crunch, seems to me your best bet is to... just add that crunch.
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carrotandstick
Apprentice Douchebag
Not a n00b. Not a bittervet. Just me.
Posts: 86
Preferred Game Systems: Fate
Favorite Species of Monkey: Librarian
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Post by carrotandstick on Sept 21, 2017 12:31:08 GMT -8
If you're happy with Fate, but you want more crunch, seems to me your best bet is to... just add that crunch. I have been coming to this conclusion myself. I have considered picking up the Fudge 10th Anniversary...I may grab it if it has your stamp of approval. And for me, the biggest hurdle in adding more crunch to Fate was adding more granularity to Fate. Fortunately, I figured out a way to do it without breaking Fate too much! The Mook was kind enough to look it over and seems to think it's not a terrible idea, so now comes the hard part of fleshing that basic die mechanic tweak out into full-fledged rules.
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jeffrywith1e
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 182
Preferred Game Systems: Pathfinder, BRP, d20 Modern
Currently Playing: Pathfinder
Currently Running: OpenQuest
Favorite Species of Monkey: gone to heaven
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Post by jeffrywith1e on Mar 27, 2018 15:28:51 GMT -8
Carrot,
Is your crunch/fate fix available somewhere? I'd like to see it.
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