fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 5, 2017 11:54:23 GMT -8
Anyine want to give a more in depth review of the beta? My group want to play it the week after next. I'll be better placed to give an in depth review then. But for now, I'm pleasantly surprised by what I'm reading.
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Post by vyrrk on Oct 5, 2017 11:59:58 GMT -8
I plan on reading through the rules tonight and look forward to seeing how it works.
I'm happy to hear its not Gensys... but still bummed its not normal dice. Oh well... Trying not to go into this with a negative view before I read it.... Trying...
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 5, 2017 12:42:55 GMT -8
My problem with the Khitai Kickstarter is that for what I want is too much for me. I want the Limited Edition book but not for $250. Especially when I factor in exchange rate. I know that I will get a ton of PDFs and stuff but I am not a big PDF reader. And I would rather stick to a setting I know than spend hours trying to learn a new one. Checking on that for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 14:51:13 GMT -8
Haven't read through it yet but seen a mix of opinions elsewhere (including a few grognard "it's not my L5R! it's ruined everything" posts on reddit). I'm not surprised by the special dice approach and can understand why people aren't fond of it, am willing to give it a try but will look through the rules first. Have to say though that I find it odd the number of people I've seen complaining about having to buy special dice saying they're going to buy Khitai instead given how much they'll spend on the KS. Well, here's the thing with that. $5 for a special app that ONLY works with new L5R - the dice aren't the same as the Star Wars, so it's not useful for other games. Or $10 for 300-pages of pdfs. I think it's a case of going with a known variable. There are probably a ton of gamers out there who have played at least one John Wick product over the course of ... my well-loved first copy of L5R 1e is 1996, so ... 21+ years, who also already have d10s. The people willing to invest in Khitai is because of that, or Orkworld (which I love. He wrote the world just so his boss would let him play an orc bard in a D&D game), or 7th Sea - either edition.. I'm going to invest in it because of what little I invested in 7th Sea second edition got me pdf after pdf, a full CD's worth of gaming music, two full novels, as well as EVERY first-edition 7th Sea pdf. I'm going to get all of that for the price I'm going to be required to spend to get actual dice for my gaming group. At least with FATE Core, you can use d6s easily. Everyone has those. Yes, you can print and stick the labels on, but you're looking at sticky paper or tape - which taping the paper on isn't going to do any favors for rolling. Hope this doesn't come off as a 'you're having WrongFun'. It's not meant to. And I think the dice wouldn't be as much of an issue to people if they were the same icons as Star Wars. Do they work with their other system (Genisys? Isn't that the bad Terminator movie?) or are they stand alone? As an old grognard, I worry we're getting into the 'variant covers' era comics went through. Because a lot of early gamers are my age -near/at forty-ish - or are young and carefree, I kind of feel like the industry feels there's a ton of money floating around just for the taking. And new dice that only work with one system are, in theory, a license to print money
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 5, 2017 21:56:35 GMT -8
Haven't read through it yet but seen a mix of opinions elsewhere (including a few grognard "it's not my L5R! it's ruined everything" posts on reddit). I'm not surprised by the special dice approach and can understand why people aren't fond of it, am willing to give it a try but will look through the rules first. Have to say though that I find it odd the number of people I've seen complaining about having to buy special dice saying they're going to buy Khitai instead given how much they'll spend on the KS. Well, here's the thing with that. $5 for a special app that ONLY works with new L5R - the dice aren't the same as the Star Wars, so it's not useful for other games. Or $10 for 300-pages of pdfs. I think it's a case of going with a known variable. There are probably a ton of gamers out there who have played at least one John Wick product over the course of ... my well-loved first copy of L5R 1e is 1996, so ... 21+ years, who also already have d10s. The people willing to invest in Khitai is because of that, or Orkworld (which I love. He wrote the world just so his boss would let him play an orc bard in a D&D game), or 7th Sea - either edition.. I'm going to invest in it because of what little I invested in 7th Sea second edition got me pdf after pdf, a full CD's worth of gaming music, two full novels, as well as EVERY first-edition 7th Sea pdf. I'm going to get all of that for the price I'm going to be required to spend to get actual dice for my gaming group. At least with FATE Core, you can use d6s easily. Everyone has those. Yes, you can print and stick the labels on, but you're looking at sticky paper or tape - which taping the paper on isn't going to do any favors for rolling. Hope this doesn't come off as a 'you're having WrongFun'. It's not meant to. And I think the dice wouldn't be as much of an issue to people if they were the same icons as Star Wars. Do they work with their other system (Genisys? Isn't that the bad Terminator movie?) or are they stand alone? As an old grognard, I worry we're getting into the 'variant covers' era comics went through. Because a lot of early gamers are my age -near/at forty-ish - or are young and carefree, I kind of feel like the industry feels there's a ton of money floating around just for the taking. And new dice that only work with one system are, in theory, a license to print money Wait, the dice app is 5 US dollars? It’s 5 pounds over here in the UK!
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 5, 2017 22:06:47 GMT -8
$5 for a special app that ONLY works with new L5R - the dice aren't the same as the Star Wars, so it's not useful for other games. I'm not going to disagree with the majority of your statement (though I've seen too many games companies go bust in my time to begrudge them the desire to "print money") but I should point out that the app also replicates "normal" polyhedrals.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 5, 2017 22:19:13 GMT -8
Wait, the dice app is 5 US dollars? It’s 5 pounds over here in the UK! Yeah, App Store prices here have been climbing towards dollar/sterling parity for a few months now. Remember when a future in Europe but outside the Eurozone gave us a strong pound? But it gets worse, when we leave the customs union, all the UK crowdfunding fulfilment centres will go bust or move to the continent and we'll go back to paying enormous import charges on our games. Back on topic: I've been reading the skills list, and like how they've made it flexible to the sort of campaign you want to run, while at the same time simplifying it. I'm a big fan of the old list, but as a player I was the only one, it seemed, who used it in the spirit intended - replicating a samurai's well rounded education rather than min-maxing the fighting, social or spell casting skills. The shorter list, and the passion mechanics, will better encourage PCs to take up flower arranging.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 0:07:13 GMT -8
Wait, the dice app is 5 US dollars? It’s 5 pounds over here in the UK! Huh? It's showing up as £3.19 on my phone.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 0:19:12 GMT -8
Haven't read through it yet but seen a mix of opinions elsewhere (including a few grognard "it's not my L5R! it's ruined everything" posts on reddit). I'm not surprised by the special dice approach and can understand why people aren't fond of it, am willing to give it a try but will look through the rules first. Have to say though that I find it odd the number of people I've seen complaining about having to buy special dice saying they're going to buy Khitai instead given how much they'll spend on the KS. Well, here's the thing with that. $5 for a special app that ONLY works with new L5R - the dice aren't the same as the Star Wars, so it's not useful for other games. Or $10 for 300-pages of pdfs. I think it's a case of going with a known variable. There are probably a ton of gamers out there who have played at least one John Wick product over the course of ... my well-loved first copy of L5R 1e is 1996, so ... 21+ years, who also already have d10s. The people willing to invest in Khitai is because of that, or Orkworld (which I love. He wrote the world just so his boss would let him play an orc bard in a D&D game), or 7th Sea - either edition.. I'm going to invest in it because of what little I invested in 7th Sea second edition got me pdf after pdf, a full CD's worth of gaming music, two full novels, as well as EVERY first-edition 7th Sea pdf. I'm going to get all of that for the price I'm going to be required to spend to get actual dice for my gaming group. At least with FATE Core, you can use d6s easily. Everyone has those. Yes, you can print and stick the labels on, but you're looking at sticky paper or tape - which taping the paper on isn't going to do any favors for rolling. Hope this doesn't come off as a 'you're having WrongFun'. It's not meant to. And I think the dice wouldn't be as much of an issue to people if they were the same icons as Star Wars. Do they work with their other system (Genisys? Isn't that the bad Terminator movie?) or are they stand alone? As an old grognard, I worry we're getting into the 'variant covers' era comics went through. Because a lot of early gamers are my age -near/at forty-ish - or are young and carefree, I kind of feel like the industry feels there's a ton of money floating around just for the taking. And new dice that only work with one system are, in theory, a license to print money Yeah I can understand that, though I've seen a few posts elsewhere with people complaining about the new dice / system then saying they're going to drop $100+ on the Khitai KS. As for the price of getting dice for your gaming group that I don't actually agree with. I'm at the point where I'm getting tired of players not being willing to invest in a game yet expect the GM to. I've only been gaming about a decade and have already spent a lot of money on the hobby as it's my thing and I like collecting / reading games as much as playing them. But it irritates me when players expect to be able to just show up to campaign after campaign then complain at having to buy a set of dice on occasion. Especially the players who regularly show up with drinks / takeaway etc.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 6, 2017 1:52:08 GMT -8
Wait, the dice app is 5 US dollars? It’s 5 pounds over here in the UK! Huh? It's showing up as £3.19 on my phone. It's £4.99 on mine.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 6, 2017 2:03:17 GMT -8
$5 for a special app that ONLY works with new L5R - the dice aren't the same as the Star Wars, so it's not useful for other games. I'm not going to disagree with the majority of your statement (though I've seen too many games companies go bust in my time to begrudge them the desire to "print money") but I should point out that the app also replicates "normal" polyhedrals. Sure, but so does the Star Wars app (which also has die sets for all of their other Star Wars games) and that one was the same price as anywhere else after currency conversion. I too don't begrudge gaming companies making money; they are a business after all. However, I already have to pay an extortionate amount of shipping for a physical product if I can't get it in the UK (which unfortunately is just how it is), but I don't have to pay extra for pdf's (e.g. from Drivethrurpg) and other digital content (e.g. the aforementioned Star Wars dice app from FFG) just because I happen to be in a country other than the US, so it's a bit galling to see that with this one, for all that it's only a quid or so. I'll try again later tonight, based on whodo's comment, but it was definitely £4.99 when I checked yesterday morning and evening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 3:49:46 GMT -8
Huh? It's showing up as £3.19 on my phone. It's £4.99 on mine. That's really weird, was your account originally registered in a different country? Might be that it's doing an exchange of the US prices.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 6, 2017 4:54:55 GMT -8
It's £4.99 on mine. That's really weird, was your account originally registered in a different country? Might be that it's doing an exchange of the US prices. Nope, definitely registered in the UK. Tried turning device off & back on again, signing out and back in, signing in on another device, still get this:
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Post by RudeAlert on Oct 6, 2017 11:42:38 GMT -8
To offer a counterpoint to all those expressing dissatisfaction at the use of custom dice, I would like to offer my positive opinion on the matter.
Firstly: I'm really not bothered by custom dice in principle and in practice. I think they can really add a level of flavor to a system that standard numbered dice can't. Yes, you could simply use the numbered dice with a very flavorful system but I like the simple elegance that custom dice with setting appropriate symbols can provide. Also, let's not forget that what we, as gamers, call "normal" dice would be considered weird, funky and definitely custom to about 90% of the non-gamer population. I would not be the least bit surprised if among those who are neither board-gamers nor RPGers, the vast majority had never even heard of the notion of any type of non-d6 die. So let's not kid ourselves, we all like funky dice. I think it's more accurate to say that those who don't like these custom dice in particular are more bothered by the fact that they are system-exclusive, unlike the standard array of funky dice that we are familiar with. I know that point has been made but I feel like a lot of the complaints about "funky custom dice" that I've read tend to just focus on the fact that they are "custom."
Now, about the L5R 5E dice. I like them a lot, granted I've obviously never played nor run the game, but just from my quick browse through of the PDF, I really really like what I see.
I like that they've brought it down to just two die types. I have no problem at all with the multiplicitous dice of the Star Wars and Genesys systems, but I do feel like having only two types will make it easier for some people to grok, which is always a plus. I also like that they are black and white, which is very setting appropriate (Yin and Yang anyone?). They've also brought the number of symbols down to only 4, which again will make it more accessible to some people; the larger number of symbols is not a problem for me, but not everyone likes systems and rules as much as I do.
I really like the idea of choosing your "keep" dice. It feels very appropriate for the setting. It means you have to take a bit of time to make a decision after you roll, which feels very Japanese and samurai-esque, the whole thoughtful deliberate pause thing just feels right. It reminds me of the concept of action in inaction, the idea that you shouldn't just rush headlong into everything without taking the time to deliberate about your actions and slow down, and even take a pause, when necessary. I know some people might not like this in practice (heck even I might not, I haven't tried it yet) but it seems like it might help to slow things down a bit, especially during very tense situations like combat, or very tense negotiations or things like that, which feels very samurai-esque. It feels very appropriate to take time to consider your options thoughtfully before committing to a choice rather than just taking the "best" number or trying to have the BIGGEST result without consideration for the consequences.
And this idea of considering the consequences of one's actions also feels very setting-appropriate. It means having to sometimes make hard choices between greater degrees of success with major consequences or less impactful successes with lesser consequences, which again is something that feels very right for a samurai game. These custom dice, unlike standard numbered dice, can feature symbols that are both good and bad on a single face, which means that sometimes you might roll a crap-ton of successes that also feature Strife symbols (I believe that's the bad symbol right?), which means having to make a potentially very difficult choice: keep all the successes but have to deal with all the negative ramifications, or only keep some of the successes and have smaller drawbacks, but also only a fraction of the success. This seems like the kind of hard choices that a samurai would have to contemplate on a regular basis.
And one last neat little touch, I don't know if this will be on the final version, but the character sheet in the Beta book has the four dice symbols on it for easy reference. Such a simple and helpful thing, I don't know why they didn't think to do that with their Star Wars and Genesys character sheets.
So, overall, I like it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 17:30:25 GMT -8
As for the price of getting dice for your gaming group that I don't actually agree with. I'm at the point where I'm getting tired of players not being willing to invest in a game yet expect the GM to. I've only been gaming about a decade and have already spent a lot of money on the hobby as it's my thing and I like collecting / reading games as much as playing them. But it irritates me when players expect to be able to just show up to campaign after campaign then complain at having to buy a set of dice on occasion. Especially the players who regularly show up with drinks / takeaway etc. I am generally with you on this. But, I think if there's a problem with having deadbeat players - to the point where they won't even invest in a set of polyhedrals for themselves, and always need to bum a set - I liken it to being around the friend who will always 'get the next round' and never does, or always bums cigarettes. And I know not everyone has a lot of selection in their groups though. Personal information about my situation: My gaming group is myself, two married couples (including one with a brand new baby), and various others that may or may not flit in or out. More or less, we pool our resources. I have a ton of gaming materials going back to my original 1982 D&D Basic set and the color-in dice that came with it, original TSR Marvel, Orkworld, and various and sundry things. A friend has pretty much every Palladium/Rifts book printed. I am lucky that I am in a group where if I were to want to run Rifts, I can easily borrow my friend's books, and he has access to all of my L5R books. We've entered a phase where we are flitting system to system. We think of it like television - playing 'miniseries' until some show's pilot catches interest and springs into a 'series'. With the collective tightness of money, this isn't something we can easily do. TLDR I know, but... I know the system will be great. The world is phenomenal and the themes are always good and have given me many good years. Again, it wasn't my goal to come off as 'WrongFun!', but I do worry that we're entering a phase like the comics glut of variant covers and comics speculation. Is every company going to move to app-only or special-dice for everything now? I think it's a dangerous road. The saving grace of our hobby, however, is our ability to reskin whatever world or idea or genre (I'd love to see Ken Hite's Crimean War Mecha vs Cyborgs world) to whatever mechanics we like. Anyway, sorry again for the rambley rant.
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