fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 11, 2017 8:39:30 GMT -8
Hey, I'm just reporting two of my players telling me it's complex. With all due respect, not really.... You said that they said it was too complex for this day and age.... That's a VERY different statement, and what I am objecting to. HERO characters are extremely complex, GURPS characters are complex... Neither are "more complex than they should be in this day and age", and both of them are miles ahead of L5R (new or old). Well you are obviously showing no respect at all. Because, yes that's what they said. And they are entitled to their opinion. And I'M FUCKING entitled to report my concern. And sorry Hero and Gurps are examples of systems that were written years ago and are not "of this day and age". Back on my blocked list you go.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Oct 11, 2017 9:09:05 GMT -8
No actually. I'm not finished. I think I have to explain why your behaviour here is so rude. For a start, I'm NOT FUCKING DISAGREEING WITH YOU. I said it looks reasonably simple to me. My only point of disagreement was where I said some games reward complex character generation, but some (for example FFG Star Wars) do not. (And yes is subjective not objective, but this isn't SCIENCE, it's about do my group want to play a game or not.) If you want to have an argument about Star Wars, fine. But no, instead you argued about L5R. My last post was me LETTING YOU WIN, kapeesh? I admit I was only reporting my players comments and I hadn't actually tried myself. WHEN I try, if I find it complex too, I'd have come back and have the argument you so obviously crave. BUT FOR NOW (and forever actually 'cos I'm not writing to you again) YOU WIN.
But no. You have to come back "with all due respect" to tell me I'm wrong again. I know the craving to have the last word on the internet is strong. But you don't have to be condescending. Yet you are. I have witnessed this s behaviour in you before, with me and with others.
Now, I'm aware that as a community, we have a reputation of tending towards Autistic Spectrum Disorder, and for all I know, you might not be aware of how you words affect others. Note, I'm NOT accusing you of being on the spectrum, but if you do need help understanding why you make me angry, then consider the above my explanation. I'm sure you'll tell me that if I'm offended, then it's on me. But go ahead, I'm not reading you any more.
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SirGuido
Supporter
Drizztmas Santa
Ask me about the Drizztmas Exchange!
Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
Currently Playing: Nothing.
Currently Running: Nothing.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Anything in a Cage.
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Post by SirGuido on Oct 11, 2017 10:14:58 GMT -8
Ok, so according to the new rules, the first thing you guys need to do is make a Void assessment. TN is 1. After that you add the bonus successes to your Focus stat to determine your initiative, then we can determine stance and actions.
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HazelnutMudslide
Supporter
Posts: 129
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, 7th Sea, TriStat, WoD, D&D5e
Currently Playing: Nothing (LFG)
Currently Running: Nothing (LFG)
Favorite Species of Monkey: grease, never know when you'll need one to fix things.
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Post by HazelnutMudslide on Oct 11, 2017 10:31:38 GMT -8
Don’t pour accelerant on the flames.
Fred, ayslyn had no idea that the turn of phrase “with all due respect” means the exact opposite to brits. I only know because I am one, despite emigrating.
I already spoke my piece re: beta in the show thread for last Friday’s show, I suggest you both go read it and remember there’s a middle ground. We’re all here due to a live of gaming and social interaction, let’s not fight for the sake of fighting.
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 11, 2017 11:08:34 GMT -8
I am going to write a more detailed post later, when I’m in front of a real keyboard. I want to be as clear as I am capable of being.
However, allow me to say, for now, that when I use that phrase, I mean exactly that.
Suffice to say that I believe that we are arguing at cross purposes, and that I intend to try to clarify my stance and the fact that my...ire(?), is not, nor was directed at you.
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Post by RudeAlert on Oct 11, 2017 11:50:44 GMT -8
.... what the fuck happened here?!?!?! I thought you needed a molehill to make a mountain, this was totally flat ground.... the fuck??? And I agree with ayslyn on this, there is no such thing as a gaming style that is inappropriate for any "day and age." As long as there is a demand for it, anything goes. Should we no longer allow the antiquated d20 into our games because it's too 1980s or something? If you don't like a certain game, or a certain character creation process that's perfectly fine, that game just isn't for you. But to then project that into some sort of "objective" observation about the state of the hobby as a whole and then claim that something is "objectively" inappropriate, that's a whole other kind of statement. Also, HazelnutMudslide, I'm not British but I've seen quite a lot of British TV and movies and I've never heard the phrase "with all due respect" in any context that would indicate that it was meant to be rude. Is that more of a colloquialism that shows up in more informal settings but less likely to be used on TV or something? Either way I find that rather strange, I mean it literally includes the words "all due respect," I find it kind of amazing that people could interpret that as basically meaning "fuck you." I guess maybe it's the British equivalent of Americans saying "I could care less" when what they mean is literally the exact opposite. Very odd cultural difference either way.
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HazelnutMudslide
Supporter
Posts: 129
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, 7th Sea, TriStat, WoD, D&D5e
Currently Playing: Nothing (LFG)
Currently Running: Nothing (LFG)
Favorite Species of Monkey: grease, never know when you'll need one to fix things.
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Post by HazelnutMudslide on Oct 11, 2017 12:41:09 GMT -8
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Post by RudeAlert on Oct 11, 2017 16:01:27 GMT -8
It’s probably the most polite “fuck you” out there, and if you’re hearing it on tv shows, that’s what they’re actually meaning. I could totally swear that I've head it several times and it never seemed to convey any rudeness... I guess maybe British people aren't as polite as I thought, and they were just verbally flipping each other off the whole time... this is very disconcerting, I feel like I need to reassess my whole perception of British entertainment now
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HazelnutMudslide
Supporter
Posts: 129
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, 7th Sea, TriStat, WoD, D&D5e
Currently Playing: Nothing (LFG)
Currently Running: Nothing (LFG)
Favorite Species of Monkey: grease, never know when you'll need one to fix things.
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Post by HazelnutMudslide on Oct 11, 2017 16:12:07 GMT -8
The veil has been lifted...
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Post by joecrak on Oct 11, 2017 19:21:23 GMT -8
It’s probably the most polite “fuck you” out there, and if you’re hearing it on tv shows, that’s what they’re actually meaning. I could totally swear that I've head it several times and it never seemed to convey any rudeness... I guess maybe British people aren't as polite as I thought, and they were just verbally flipping each other off the whole time... this is very disconcerting, I feel like I need to reassess my whole perception of British entertainment now I mean, I dunno about others, but I'm American and it's always been an insult. Like No disrespect but..., Oh Bless your Heart, and Don't take this the wrong way.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 12, 2017 4:39:20 GMT -8
It’s probably the most polite “fuck you” out there, and if you’re hearing it on tv shows, that’s what they’re actually meaning. I could totally swear that I've head it several times and it never seemed to convey any rudeness... I guess maybe British people aren't as polite as I thought, and they were just verbally flipping each other off the whole time... this is very disconcerting, I feel like I need to reassess my whole perception of British entertainment now That's where you're going wrong. We're always polite, even when we're giving someone the finger.
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 12, 2017 5:15:43 GMT -8
ah fiddlesticks. I honestly did mean to post this last night. I got caught up in the Stream, and then dealing with my nightly routine, and soon enough it was 3:00am. My apologies.
First let me address the now infamous phrase. I'm 45 years old. I have always used the phrase in the manner that I did here, fully meaning it, and have never had such a reaction to it. Online, offline, people who know me, and people who didn't. This is the first time I have seen anyone take it as an insult. Likewise, I have mostly seen Bless Your Heart as a response to compliments. I can't speak to other's experiences, only my own. As ours seem to have clashed, let me just say that I apologize for my part in the misunderstanding. Regardless of how you read it, I was not trying to be disrespectful, nor rude.
Likewise, I do not attribute any of the issue that I took with your post to you. You were relaying your friend's opinions, not your own. You made that clear, and I was addressing their comment. Again, if you thought that I was directing my arguments AT you (rather than...through(?) you), my apologies.
I used the phrasing "you said that they said" simply because I was not there for the conversation. It wasn't meant as an accusation. It's a thing I do so that I am clear about where I understand information is coming from. Proper attribution and all that. Your second post had a different take on their complaint. The first had the phrase "in this day and age" the second did not.
Now, as to my complaint. It's specifically on the "in this day and age" part. Had their complaint been that it was too complex for them, that would have been the end of it. Their tastes (in that scenario) clearly run to lighter systems, and that's all good. Plenty of room for plenty of styles. Go back through my post history. I am clearly on the side of let everyone have fun their own way, and bugger off.
But that phrasing "in this day and age" comes across as an objective statement. Not a statement of opinion. It came across, to me, with a hard One True Wayism vibe, which I will confess is a sore spot with me. Look back on the Quantum Ogre arguments. My objection wasn't that some people prefer that the GM stick with their script, but with the demonizing of those that don't.
Heh, and after typing all that, and a lot of editing, I notice that he's blocked me. Ah well. Whatever. Good luck and good gaming Fredix.
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SirGuido
Supporter
Drizztmas Santa
Ask me about the Drizztmas Exchange!
Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
Currently Playing: Nothing.
Currently Running: Nothing.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Anything in a Cage.
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Post by SirGuido on Oct 12, 2017 7:29:09 GMT -8
ah fiddlesticks. I honestly did mean to post this last night. I got caught up in the Stream, and then dealing with my nightly routine, and soon enough it was 3:00am. My apologies. First let me address the now infamous phrase. I'm 45 years old. I have always used the phrase in the manner that I did here, fully meaning it, and have never had such a reaction to it. Online, offline, people who know me, and people who didn't. This is the first time I have seen anyone take it as an insult. Likewise, I have mostly seen Bless Your Heart as a response to compliments. I can't speak to other's experiences, only my own. As ours seem to have clashed, let me just say that I apologize for my part in the misunderstanding. Regardless of how you read it, I was not trying to be disrespectful, nor rude. Likewise, I do not attribute any of the issue that I took with your post to you. You were relaying your friend's opinions, not your own. You made that clear, and I was addressing their comment. Again, if you thought that I was directing my arguments AT you (rather than...through(?) you), my apologies. I used the phrasing "you said that they said" simply because I was not there for the conversation. It wasn't meant as an accusation. It's a thing I do so that I am clear about where I understand information is coming from. Proper attribution and all that. Your second post had a different take on their complaint. The first had the phrase "in this day and age" the second did not. Now, as to my complaint. It's specifically on the "in this day and age" part. Had their complaint been that it was too complex for them, that would have been the end of it. Their tastes (in that scenario) clearly run to lighter systems, and that's all good. Plenty of room for plenty of styles. Go back through my post history. I am clearly on the side of let everyone have fun their own way, and bugger off. But that phrasing "in this day and age" comes across as an objective statement. Not a statement of opinion. It came across, to me, with a hard One True Wayism vibe, which I will confess is a sore spot with me. Look back on the Quantum Ogre arguments. My objection wasn't that some people prefer that the GM stick with their script, but with the demonizing of those that don't. Heh, and after typing all that, and a lot of editing, I notice that he's blocked me. Ah well. Whatever. Good luck and good gaming Fredix. fredrixEdit: I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to reignite this flame war. Ayslyn apologized, it deserves to be seen. That is all.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 23:55:30 GMT -8
So, I’m late to the party, but I want to talk about narrative dice. There seems to be this conception that they are just for flavor, and that’s crap. They actually do something that numbered dice could not do efficiently. By having multiple results on a die face its not a simple matter of 1 is a nothing, 2-3 is opportunity, 4-5 is success, and 6 is crit success. Because strife is included it would actually look like this: 1 is nothing, 2 is opportunity with strife, 3 is opportunity, 4 is success with strife, 5 is success, 6 is crit success with strife.
Look at a set of fate dice, they are six sided and each face only has a single symbol on it. Thus there isn’t a big need to use actual fate dice because we can do the conversion easily in our head. But as soon as it starts getting more complex it becomes untenable. If we want the nuance of the more complex system, we either have to pony up for custom dice to make it easier to parse or slow down gameplay to a crawl while we double check charts.
Because the system is roll and keep, having strife appear alongside other positive symbols in important. It asks players to make decisions about who their character is. Will you risk losing face to be the best? Or is it more important to keep your On (mask/face) than it is to win at a particular contest?
The game is entirely about balancing desire with expectation. Will you pursue your desires or act in accordance with what bushido demands of you? Having part of that struggle be baked into the resolution system of the game is a brilliant move.
But what about the guy with no money? Well, its a buisness. Frankly, someone who can’t afford a 5 dollar app is not their ideal customer. Why would they sacrifice the quality of the game so that someone who can’t afford to buy in anyways can feel better? My only complaint is that they need to do a better job with their app of supporting online or remote play. I’d love to see some method of linking up with others so that we can actually see what they rolled. At least for me, I don’t trust 90+% of people to be honest about their rolls, and I don’t play in person anymore. In sure their’ll be support for their dice on roll20 eventually, but I wish that the option that I paid for did more of what I need it to do.
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Post by akavidar on Oct 21, 2017 4:18:03 GMT -8
This whole thing can be summed up very easily. ayslyn is a Crab.
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