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Post by RudeAlert on Oct 13, 2017 20:42:38 GMT -8
Regarding the Scorpion clan in L5R, they strike me as the equivalent of the hard-ass first officer on a ship. The one who is deliberately an asshole so that everyone on the crew hates him and not the captain, that way the captain has an easier time leading the crew because they're loyal to him, even though the orders actually come from the captain (even some of the unpleasant ones) but since they are dispensed by the first officer, he gets all the flak. It's like a good-cop-bad-cop scenario to protect the captain's leadership. So, as I see it, the Scorpion are the emperor's "first officer," they take all the flak and keep people distracted so that everyone hates them and no one ever thinks to unite against the emperor. So I feel like they're basically the coolest clan in the game. And I also like that it's basically an in-game secret for the characters, but the truth is literally spelled out in the core book in the Scorpion's description. That way people who choose to play Scorpions don't have to think that they're automatically playing actual assholes. Jessie HJ YES! The Prophecy is an amazing movie! Christopher Walken is awesome in that movie, and Viggo Mortensen is an awesome Lucifer. Such an awesome movie! The sequels get progressively less good, but the first is awesome. Also, TWO SONGS! at the end. Awesome!
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Post by Stu Venable on Oct 14, 2017 21:56:11 GMT -8
An astute analogy.
But I wonder if even the emperor knows the role of Scorpion. I like to think they've assumed this role, seeing its necesity, but never admitting it. They take it upon themselves to act deceitfully, sacrificing their honor because of their loyalty to the emperor. It makes them even more tragic, as even the emperor they love distrust them.
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HazelnutMudslide
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Post by HazelnutMudslide on Oct 15, 2017 3:36:11 GMT -8
An astute analogy. But I wonder if even the emperor knows the role of Scorpion. I like to think they've assumed this role, seeing its necesity, but never admitting it. They take it upon themselves to act deceitfully, sacrificing their honor because of their loyalty to the emperor. It makes them even more tragic, as even the emperor they love distrust them. Depends on the Emperor in question, Hantei loved Bayushi. The Scorpion clan as a general rule can be summed up by the Jim Gordon quote at the end of Dark Knight, paraphrased: "They're the heroes Rokugan deserves, but not the ones it needs right now. So we'll hunt them, because they can take it. Because they're not our heroes. They're silent guardians. Watchful protectors. Dark knights." Drives me fkin bonkers when people glomp onto 'ooh, ninja!', and further ruin the perception of the clan on a meta-level. Drives me even more insane when you get players like the one in the letter, insisting on playing one in a lion/crane/dragon game. If they can't handle the emotional and logistical complexities of at least attempting to pose as one of those clans, then ugh.. no.. gtfo mah game.
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Post by RudeAlert on Oct 15, 2017 11:49:42 GMT -8
hhmm having the emperor be in the dark about their true motives does make them incredibly tragic. Though I kinda prefer the idea that it would vary from one emperor to another based on how observant a given emperor actually is. Tragedy is nice but I like the idea that the good guys don't have to get completely shafted all the time, I'm a softy that way. I also like the idea that some of the high-ranking members of other clans can also sometimes figure it out through sufficient experience with Scorpions and their schemes.
Of course, the irony is that those few who do figure it out, while becoming much more positively inclined to the Scorpions, would also shoot right to the top of the Scorpion's Hit List. You can't risk that secret getting out after all.
And hey! That's another layer of tragedy right there. Damn the Scorpions are awesome!
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HazelnutMudslide
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Post by HazelnutMudslide on Oct 15, 2017 11:57:20 GMT -8
Yes, they’re Snape.
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fredrix
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Post by fredrix on Oct 15, 2017 13:00:58 GMT -8
Bah! Scorpions are the goth teenagers of Rokugan. They think they're so mysterious with their masks are their "secret missions", but really they just like drawing attention to themselves. Sad.
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HazelnutMudslide
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Post by HazelnutMudslide on Oct 15, 2017 14:01:50 GMT -8
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with goths, fredrix.
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Post by RudeAlert on Oct 15, 2017 14:35:32 GMT -8
Well, actually The L5R Scorpion clan existed before the Harry Potter books, so it would be more accurate to say that Snape is a Scorpion rather than the other way around. "snort" "wheeze" "inhaler puff"
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 15, 2017 19:10:54 GMT -8
While my heart is Crab to the core, I do love the Scorpion. They really are spiritual brothers in my mind. Both clans are all about the pathos, about embracing a duty that they know will ostracize them from the rest of society.
It's the doomed nobility and sacrifice that drew me into the Crab's story and cemented my loyalty for life.
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Post by akavidar on Oct 15, 2017 19:13:26 GMT -8
The Crab Clans self sacrifice to defend the Wall is a great character endorsement. Plus they are crunchy on the outside and soft and juicy on the inside!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 0:42:46 GMT -8
I've always taken the approach with the Scorpion that even within the Clan the rank and file samurai don't necessarily know their true purpose. They're raised with a different interpretation of bushido but might not really know why, it's just the Scorpion way. As for ninja's I generally refuse to let them into the game if I think players are going to head down the slope of constant sidebars and sneaking around. The last game I ran ended up having 2 Scorpion characters but only because the players had interesting concepts. One was a black sheep trying to live up to the more conventional understanding of bushido and honour while the other was a Crab who had married into the Clan for love. Both slowly slipped down the path of sacrificing their personal honour, the first because it let him take the easy choices, the second because he ultimately chose his wife over dying as a hero. It was great and the players did amazing jobs with portraying the internal conflicts of their characters.
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fredrix
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Post by fredrix on Oct 16, 2017 1:27:07 GMT -8
Having actually listened to the show now, and yes, though I was joking with my earlier “goths” post, there is a tendency for players that like to draw attention to themselves and grab more than their share of spotlight time to choose Scorpion characters so that they can get extra sidebars while they are ninja-ing. It’s not generally a problem for me as GM (I can get scrupulously fair with spotlight time, calling scene on a Scorpion if their are fannying about) but I always feel that scorpions in my game are missing an opportunity. Basically Scorpion Infiltrator players are doing it wrong - turning up to winter court in their masks and then getting dressed up in their Ninja suits to creep about. If I were playing a Scorpion, my “mask” would be my Lion (or whatever) identity. I’m always encouraging Scorpion players to take, say, the “other school” advantage, and “dark secret” disadvantage to fake being from another clan as a “sleeper”. I haven’t succeeded in getting anyone to go that far, but one did become a monk, and another a ronin.
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Post by uncommonman on Oct 16, 2017 5:27:18 GMT -8
Kimi if you are going to use spoilers don't say people can start listening again and the repeat the spoiler :-p Concerning the PbP that SirGuido ran I had a great time but I was clear that the game was ruined to some part by the scorpion incident. I think that the "no scorpion" rule had a reason to be there and sometimes you need to say NO in stead of yes and.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Oct 16, 2017 8:05:44 GMT -8
The Hantei definitely know what the Scorpion are about. It's why they indulge the Scorpion acting as they do (pun intended). If the Hantei didn't know and took offence, all that's required is a simple word to the other clans and the Scorpion are toast. It's a similar situation with the Tortoise Clan and the Otomo family; as far as they are concerned, they are acting on the best interests of the Hantei and the Empire, with the tacit approval of the Emperor.
"I will be your villain, Hantei."
However, that doesn't mean you couldn't have that as a thing in your own game. I just couldn't see the Scorpion lasting long without Imperial sanction! 😊
On the ninja thing, I will usually let a player try that out, after providing them with the info from the Great Clans book about how the black pyjama-wearing dudes somersaulting across rooftops are the distraction, while the rest of the Clan gets on with the real work in the shadows. After all, if everyone is looking at those chumps.......
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2017 15:55:06 GMT -8
Stu hit it on the head about the Scorpion. You really need to decide if they're the heroes or the villains. You also need to be strategic about who you let play a Scorpion ( I agree that if there was any mistake in SirGuido's game, it was that first time you let someone (especially a stranger) bend your guidelines)
First off, as they specifically say repeatedly, there are no ninjas. Now, out of character, you may be one, but absolutely no one knows they exist, and everyone would scoff at the suggestion that ninja are more than dishonorable people preying on the legend. Everyone (capital E) knows they were executed to a man by Imperial decree centuries ago.
Playing a Scorpion is really like playing a secret agent. You follow your commands you are given. You respect the chain of command, possibly as much or more as the Crab do. You will die alone, with your own personal dreams dashed, in obedience to your lord.
Of course there are villainous Scorpions out there - who pursue their own selfish agenda, who traffic in dark powers. And even more, per Way of the Scorpion (which is a GREAT book if you haven't read it), there is a chance your character may suffer from the Yogo Curse, which says you will betray what and who you most love at the most tragic time possible. The GM is supposed to make a secret roll to see if your character has that in their bloodline; the Yogo family always has it.
I have a very biased view on the Scorpion, because even though I'm more of a Crane person from the jump, I had my best gaming times as Bayushi Seikuro. And I'd say John Wick's in-character advice during Gencon really nailed what a Scorpion should be about. He said: "Only you are strong enough to save the Empire." And basically, I went back to the campaign and put the team on my back and we won.
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