SirGuido
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Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
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Post by SirGuido on Oct 20, 2017 13:42:33 GMT -8
I made a thread for that.
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hjillsok
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 14
Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds, D&D5e, White Wolf, Rifts
Currently Playing: D&D5e
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
Favorite Species of Monkey: Big Blue
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Post by hjillsok on Oct 21, 2017 18:52:06 GMT -8
Thanks copy/paste from my goof in session 0 thread. I liked the episode, but I had a couple of concerns with some very anti-pbta things that happened. When everyone was standing around and failing their Investigate rolls >< I could hear that the GM wanted to tell them more and had some vital information to pass on, but instead they basically hit a brick wall. They should have failed Forward and the one clue they did get from a roll should have been much more specific and related to the question. Cryptic clues in response to earned questions are just cheap. Explain that the magic that caused the burning could only have been magic and didn't hurt the surroundings. Or did the tapestry get replaced because the owner is hiding something? Tell them the information they need to know and keep things moving. Four people rolling the same thing and getting nothing useful is not how these games are meant to be played. It was frustrating to listen to. And when Lilliana was asked to Act Under Fire... she wasn't trying to do anything, so she couldn't have triggered a move. Next time try "You're being compelled to leave and go to this man... What do you do?" Then see what happens. The amount of things that happened in the game should have taken half the time and had the same amount of RP. Maybe the first investigate fail could have triggered a magical remnant that hurt someone, but they still got a question. 10s are the supposed to be the most boring results in pbta games, and 6s the most interesting, but this session flipped it. This felt very D&D, and wasn't my favorite example of the system. Of course, the characters and players were great as always. Keep it going. This system isn't typical Happy Jacks, so I look forward to seeing the evolution
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Post by vyrrk on Oct 24, 2017 11:28:45 GMT -8
After listening to the character creation I wasn't sure I was going to listen to this AP. However I gave it a chance and listened. I'm really happy I did! I really enjoyed the real world feel of everyone failing rolls and the GM trying to figure out how to deal with it. I cracked up on the tapestry scene as well. I'm looking forward to the next episode.
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Post by Kimi on Oct 24, 2017 12:46:37 GMT -8
Thanks copy/paste from my goof in session 0 thread. I liked the episode, but I had a couple of concerns with some very anti-pbta things that happened. When everyone was standing around and failing their Investigate rolls >< I could hear that the GM wanted to tell them more and had some vital information to pass on, but instead they basically hit a brick wall. They should have failed Forward and the one clue they did get from a roll should have been much more specific and related to the question. Cryptic clues in response to earned questions are just cheap. Explain that the magic that caused the burning could only have been magic and didn't hurt the surroundings. Or did the tapestry get replaced because the owner is hiding something? Tell them the information they need to know and keep things moving. Four people rolling the same thing and getting nothing useful is not how these games are meant to be played. It was frustrating to listen to. And when Lilliana was asked to Act Under Fire... she wasn't trying to do anything, so she couldn't have triggered a move. Next time try "You're being compelled to leave and go to this man... What do you do?" Then see what happens. The amount of things that happened in the game should have taken half the time and had the same amount of RP. Maybe the first investigate fail could have triggered a magical remnant that hurt someone, but they still got a question. 10s are the supposed to be the most boring results in pbta games, and 6s the most interesting, but this session flipped it. This felt very D&D, and wasn't my favorite example of the system. Of course, the characters and players were great as always. Keep it going. This system isn't typical Happy Jacks, so I look forward to seeing the evolution I feel like part of this was my responsibility, and honestly, I still wouldn't change it. The GM gave us (me) a clue. I knew the people on the video. Despite our failed rolls he found a way to move the story forward and give us the info we needed, but my character decided not to share that. I think it's going to lead to some very interesting events in the next session. In the end, I wouldn't change a thing because it lead us to the tapestry interrogation and Otto Graph. WORTH IT! We are also just starting to get to know our own characters and each other's characters. There is always a little hesitation or awkwardness at the beginning. Even with people who have played together before. I know it takes me a while to really figure out who my PC is and get in the groove as it were.
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hoobuk
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 80
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, D&D 5E, Savage Worlds, WoD20, Cortex+
Currently Playing: Vampire Dark Ages 20th Anniversary, D&D 5E, Pathfinder
Currently Running: Monster of the Week
Favorite Species of Monkey: Capucin
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Post by hoobuk on Oct 26, 2017 13:30:12 GMT -8
I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to engage in discussions like this because I want to just listen and take in feedback. Plus I can get very sensitive and don't want to feel like I have to defend myself. Anyway, hjillsok, I appreciate any observations and will always try to use them to make my game better, so thank you. What I will do is talk about this... So what I was mainly doing in my head during this spot was trying to figure out how to handle 4 Investigate misses! So, regardless of what I did (which was mostly happening in my head/off-screen), let me ask the question... In PbtA games, how do you handle everyone at the table wanting to do the same roll consecutively? Especially with information building moves like Investigate a Mystery, Read a Sitch, Discern Realities, etc. Do you let everyone try in turn? Have them all try at once and try to apply all results? Limit to just one character and some help rolls? Obviously in this session I let everyone try in turn, which can get messy.
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SirGuido
Supporter
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Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
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Favorite Species of Monkey: Anything in a Cage.
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Post by SirGuido on Oct 26, 2017 17:02:28 GMT -8
I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to engage in discussions like this because I want to just listen and take in feedback. Plus I can get very sensitive and don't want to feel like I have to defend myself. Anyway, hjillsok, I appreciate any observations and will always try to use them to make my game better, so thank you. What I will do is talk about this... So what I was mainly doing in my head during this spot was trying to figure out how to handle 4 Investigate misses! So, regardless of what I did (which was mostly happening in my head/off-screen), let me ask the question... In PbtA games, how do you handle everyone at the table wanting to do the same roll consecutively? Especially with information building moves like Investigate a Mystery, Read a Sitch, Discern Realities, etc. Do you let everyone try in turn? Have them all try at once and try to apply all results? Limit to just one character and some help rolls? Obviously in this session I let everyone try in turn, which can get messy. Personally, what I would do in this case is give them a bunch of information but a lot of it is completely false. I mean they were mostly critical fails afterall, and critical fails should mean something bad happens. Each additional attempt with a crit fail just confirms the previous information, and an attempt that ISN'T a crit fail but is just a plain fail maybe takes away a piece of the false info. Then later on, give them a chance to use a different tactic to narrow down the false info. Say the investigation gives them info like: There are singe marks on the carpet but nowhere else, there is a fine layer of ash all over everything in sight, all the items in the display are fakes not just the statues, There is no ash on the display, there look like footprints in the ash on the carpet, etc. Then the only real info is the singe marks on the carpet when nothing else is burnt. Later on someone touches a display and realizes the "ash" is actually just regular dust. A research or appraisal type check tells them that just the statues are fakes. That sort of thing. Also, you're doing a great job. Loving the game. And Otto Graf was fucking fantastic, intentional or not.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
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Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Dec 12, 2017 21:11:20 GMT -8
Late to the party as I just started listening, but I've gotten to the multiple failed Investigate a Mystery rolls. This move really tripped me up when I first started running MotW. I was concerned that missed rolls would result in the game hitting a brick wall as I mistakenly believed that would mean unfound clues. Turns out I was looking at the move as a Perception or Notice roll, when it's really a "figure things out" roll. It's a move that allows the characters (who have experience with the supernatural) to piece clues together in a way that the players (who obviously don't have experience with the supernatural) are not able to. My first time MCing Apocalypse World was a total disaster. I didn't give the players anything for their characters react to, so they didn't make moves, which didn't give me anything to keep the fiction going. Because of that formative experience, when I run PbtA games (especially for new players) I'm very eager to get the players to start making moves. Those partial successes and missed rolls really help keep the action moving. I bring that up because in this case, I would not have called for an Investigate a Mystery roll when Mike (?) had Christian ask about anything around the burned spot on the floor. His character would have simply been able to see if anything like statuettes was placed around the room, and everyone would have been able to see the case of (fake) idols. Matilda realizing the items were fake would be a great answer to the "What is being concealed here?" however. I also wouldn't have "banked" hard moves as Keeper. That being said, sometimes I just get absolutely stumped about what should happen when someone fails a roll and go to another player to give myself time to think. Sometimes that backfires, and I end up with a string of missed rolls that I have to react to. It sounds like that's what happened here. I do disagree with hjillsok about Lilliana having to Act Under Fire to resist the Djinn's compulsion though. The action Lilliana was taking was resisting a negative effect.
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
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Post by tappy on Apr 15, 2018 20:41:50 GMT -8
NIAMH IS AN IRISH NAME, NOT A WELSH NAME.
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Post by Kimi on Apr 15, 2018 20:59:30 GMT -8
NIAMH IS AN IRISH NAME, NOT A WELSH NAME. Ahh... The incoming spam as Tappy catches up on years worth of APs....
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
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Post by tappy on Apr 15, 2018 21:06:19 GMT -8
I cannot adequately describe to you how much or how long that made me cackle.
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