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Post by The Northman on Dec 26, 2017 14:10:07 GMT -8
I really enjoyed it. Loved it, even, despite acknowledging some flaws and awkward moments.
Such as:
I would have illustrated that Leia was keeping herself alive through the force, possibly with some flashback voiceover of Luke’s voice training how to breathe and focus for exactly such a purpose. I also would’ve had them send a droid or someone out to get her, because the force-pull flying looked awkward even if I’m fine with the concept.
I love what Canto Bight was trying to do, and what it set up for the movie’s theme and final shot. I didn’t love the actual execution, specifically the addition of another lengthy chase scene.
“Chrome dome”
Overall, though, it was the grown up movie that I wanted. Redemption, the ability to still be a hero even when you’ve fallen, and the importance of symbol and legend are all huge parts of this mythos, and I really liked how RJ played with them. I thought the misdirects and twists were clever, and the recurring stated motif of things not going how the audience expected was executed really well. Also, I’ve never been as emotional during a SW movie as I was here, and after Rogue One that was a pleasant surprise for me.
Things I loved:
Luke’s foreshadowing line of facing down the whole First Order with a laser sword.
“Where’s Han?”
The R2/Luke scene and use of Leia’s original video.
The Rey/Kylo fight scene and moments afterward.
The hyperspace ram.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Dec 26, 2017 15:45:09 GMT -8
“This isn’t going to go the way you think.”
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Post by EricaOdd on Dec 26, 2017 15:48:21 GMT -8
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Post by chronovore on Dec 26, 2017 16:49:04 GMT -8
Wow, you're right: that requires an astonishing degree of ignorance to complain about.
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Post by akavidar on Dec 26, 2017 18:59:26 GMT -8
Wow, you're right: that requires an astonishing degree of ignorance to complain about. I thought that was the most creative part of the film, I did not for one second think "the sound is broken"
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Post by EricaOdd on Dec 26, 2017 19:03:11 GMT -8
Me, too! The sound and music of Star Wars is ever-present. When everything went quiet like that it was quite jarring and effective. I thought it was fantastic!
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Dec 29, 2017 6:09:38 GMT -8
Yeah, that sign is stupid. At my theater a lone watcher muffled out an astonished "holy shit" that would have been otherwise inaudible over the movie. But they were saying what everyone was thinking and it created an organic amount of levity to the amazing display of destruction from that scene.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Dec 29, 2017 8:07:53 GMT -8
Polygon's "Quality Control" Podcast - The Last Jedi Review Pt 1Polygon's "Quality Control" Podcast - The Last Jedi Review Part 2
Been listening to this break down and it's revealed a lot of great things about the movie that I missed. Also, I realized something that makes Kylo Ren pretty damn great. His killing of Snoke is continuing his fanboy fantasy of being Vader and in this movie we see Kylo surpassing Vader by doing what Vader could not: Killing the Emperor and taking control of the galaxy. So in truth Yoda's words didn't just apply to Rey that "The burden of Masters is that we are what they surpass", it applied to Kylo who idolized Vader above all and succeeded where Vader failed. At this point I'm okay if Kylo is never redeemed, he proved at the end of the movie that the Dark Side is his home now and he's gonna revel in it whether Luke Force Ghost tortures him or not. Besides, I have a sneaking feeling Hux is going to take his moment in the next film and take out Kylo like a punk when he's ultimately defeated and someone leaves him out of pity.
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Post by chronovore on Dec 29, 2017 19:57:32 GMT -8
I can't wait to see this movie again. I am sure I'll notice a few more of the flaws this time, but I really found myself having fun, cheering, and occasionally crying during TLJ. I'm ready for more.
…And as a fan of Star Wars who strongly disliked Vader's "redemption" at the end of RotJ, I am absolutely fine with Kylo Ren laying (or dying) in the very bed that he made. Vader's lifetime of abhorrent behavior was not redeemed by Luke, Vader is unforgivable, one arguably good deed at the last moment doth not righteousness make.
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Dec 30, 2017 14:47:29 GMT -8
Loved my second viewing. It’s a beautiful movie.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 1:56:18 GMT -8
The further out from seeing it I get the more 'meh' *shoulder shrug* I get about it. I don't hate it, it's just... I don't love it. Part of that is the whole reset of the universe, wiping out the New Republic in a single blow etc, I'd have rather the first movie dealt with that better but JJ is a shit story teller (IMO).
I'll watch episode IX when it comes out but for me that'll probably be it, doubt I'll be too bothered by what follows after.
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Post by Kainguru on Dec 31, 2017 5:32:14 GMT -8
Like I said earlier, really want to love it but it's just (as you say @whodo) 'meh'. Changes I would have made to make it less 'meh': 1) It is actually Luke on Krait. He dies alright, during that first bombardment - from that point (when he steps out and does the shoulder flick thingy) he's a Force Ghost: but we don't know that yet. Plays out then pretty much as scripted, maybe even have the other Force Ghosts appear when it's revealed that Luke has already 'become more powerful than can imagine Dar...cough...Kylo'. The nuance? Darksiders don't get to become Force Ghosts ... I'd even include the line 'don't mistake our willingness to die in the face of overwhelming odds for weakness for we are many and at one, with The Force' 2) Fix Cando Bight: The resistance needs to do 2 things a) regroup, resupply. rearm and b) contact their allies in the Outer Rim. Krait satisfies objective a), Cando Bight should have been in pursuit of objective b) - 'we need to secure the high gain communications array on Cando Bight; Rose you have the skills to operate the equipment, Finn you're operations lead as you are familiar with 1st Order ground security protocols. Take this team and infiltrate the Comms Array'. The complication would be needing a slicer to bypass the encryption, or having the insertion teams slicer get killed early on ... 'welcome to the Resistance DJ'. At this point Phasma could get her much needed on screen time to show she's a bad ass as she pursues the insertion squad to foil their infiltration attempt on Cando Bight. No big final fight, just Phasma constantly foiling the Resistance team and rapidly reducing their numbers as a desperate Rose and Finn are forced to improvise to keep the mission on track. 3) Rework the 'killer uncle' stuff. Luke's and Kylo's recollections of the Academy's fall would be Luke taking Kylo aside - 'I gotta tell you some home truths about yer Grand Daddy ... in fact I'll let him tell you himself'. Enter the Force Ghost of Anakin, except (unknown to Luke at the time) it's not: it's actually a Force Projection fabricated by Snoke. Instead of Anakin telling Kylo he's being an emo twat, as Luke expects, this false Anakin tells Kylo to reveal in Darkside and 'destroy the Jedi'. Luke's so stunned he fails to react in time as Kylo does pretty much what he does in the film. Luke is confused, disillusioned and goes seeking answers on Arch To - wasn't Anakin redeemed?, if he wasn't redeemed how can he have manifested as a Force Ghost? If Snoke and the darkside are THAT powerful how can I fight it? maybe the Jedi got it all wrong? etc etc etc 4) During his time on Arch To Luke learns a more balanced path in The Force. He still tosses Anakin's light sabre away because that no longer the sort of tool he uses. Luke is on Arch To to keep the balance - as long as he's not active in The Force he knows that that, in a small way, limits Snoke and Kylos power. However, he wasn't counting on The Force balancing things by awakening in somebody like Rey. We get to keep the burning of sacred bloodlines etc with Luke's realisation that balancing The Force isn't the sole prerogative of the Skywalker family alone: it's everyone and anyone. He hasn't solved the problem by hiding away on Arch To, he's simply shifted the responsibility to someone else. That's when he decides to train Rey to prepare her, not as bad ass Force wielder but to resist the darkside - by facing it and accepting it and finding balance. 5) Weaponising hyperspace and rationalising the 1st Orders sucky tactics in the Space Chase: give Admiral Ackbar a heroes death. Early on in the chase, as the fuel reserves start to run low, have Ackbar take the support ships that are about to fall behind, and be picked off, make the hyperdrive suicide run. These ships take out most of the 1st Orders support fleet forcing the 1st Order to adopt the slow chase tactic we see for the rest of the movie - they keep their distance so it doesn't happen again. Ackbar dies a hero as a fitting tribute to the actor who voiced him having passed away recently, fanpeople happy and the 1st Order don't look so incompetent. 6) I'd even be cheeky enough to have a scene on the stolen Cando Bight transport involving: 'won't we need to refuel this thing to get back to Krait?','Nah, it's got some new hybrid-hyperdrive that uses less fuel','why isn't this tech available to everyone?','guess they're making to much money keeping it to themselves' Phasma has a big win because Finn and Rose fail to contact the Resistance Allies, but we know they're out there. Kylo still goes full darkside. Luke still finds a way to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat with an Obi Wan moment. We get to see more than just Yoda. Cando Bight becomes more than a scenic side trek. Aaron
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Post by chronovore on Dec 31, 2017 6:42:33 GMT -8
I like most of that! Having just rewatched it a couple hours ago, I gotta say it makes a more coherent whole on the second viewing. Force Bridging, Force Presence, or whatever you want to call it, it makes a better debut than I’d credited it for. I also would’ve had the boutonnière wearing Code Slicer be Lando Calrissian. Would’ve been a perfect cameo for him, Lily Cole companion and all.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on Jan 2, 2018 6:41:28 GMT -8
So there was a twitter stream of consciousness about the casino scenes and the plot that I hadn't considered. At the start of the movie Finn is ready to bug out just to protect Rey from the impending doom of the Resistence when he gets wrangled into a crazy plan to save it. Throughout the journey on the casino planet he is literally shown the face of everything that the Resistence is fighting against with the patrons, the horse-giraffe things, the kids, and the war profiteers which snaps ambivalence into dedication to a force for change. This culminates bluntly into the fight scene with the sorely under-used Captain Phasma when she says "You've always been scum" (Why is he now suddenly scum? Literally two days ago he was under your command!) and he replies with "REBEL scum."
The thing is, this realization didn't change my mind: The casino scene should have been a little more blunt in the effect is was having on Finn. The nuance is so subtle that we've seen people just flat out not know why it was in the movie in the first place.
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Post by Kainguru on Jan 2, 2018 8:06:41 GMT -8
Like I say - sloppy writing and direction that leaves much to be desired. The same script in the hands of a more capable director - could have made it amazing. Aaron
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