carrotandstick
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Post by carrotandstick on Apr 5, 2018 4:38:51 GMT -8
Aside from the subject I got nothing so far beyond "I want this to exist" and "Strife should be on a 9 or 10 on a dice" which gives the 'exceptional effort at a cost' feel that 5e was going for. Any thoughts?
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battlematt
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Post by battlematt on Apr 9, 2018 1:14:12 GMT -8
I also had this thought, and hearing Stu talking about it on the prior to last episode of the show compelled me to go here and talk about it.
I'm not very happy with the FFG ed beta, but like many people, I do like the Strife mechanic.
I'm making my own hack of 4th ed. I'm ditching the R2K system (because it always was kind of awkward to me), and I'm replacing it with a WoD style dice pool. You succeed on nines and tens. Tens explode. If you roll any ones, you may use them as successes if you take 1 Strife for each one you want to use.
Edit: In addition, my philosophy is to only require rolls when the outcome is uncertain. If you are doing something without any time restraints or pressure, you will likely succeed. So then there is really no need to make a roll. Just let the PC succeed. When there is something at stake however, or timing is essential, there is where a roll will add to the gameplay.
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Post by Stu Venable on Apr 12, 2018 21:00:43 GMT -8
I’m thinking of having players use two different color dice. One for stat one for skills. Then kept dice of a particular color cause strife when they’re kept. I’ll probably use willpower for composure. Maybe willpower plus void, if willpowers aren’t high enough. Penalties to actions, I’m thinking, would be increases to TNs equal to strife beyond willpower.
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Post by uncommonman on Apr 13, 2018 0:40:04 GMT -8
I’m thinking of having players use two different color dice. One for stat one for skills. Then kept dice of a particular color cause strife when they’re kept. I’ll probably use willpower for composure. Maybe willpower plus void, if willpowers aren’t high enough. Penalties to actions, I’m thinking, would be increases to TNs equal to strife beyond willpower. You could simply have the first skill and ring dice always give strife if you use it, that way you are rewarded if you are more skilled (less reason to have to choose those dice).
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fredrix
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Post by fredrix on Apr 13, 2018 2:39:27 GMT -8
I’m thinking of having players use two different color dice. One for stat one for skills. Then kept dice of a particular color cause strife when they’re kept. I’ll probably use willpower for composure. Maybe willpower plus void, if willpowers aren’t high enough. Penalties to actions, I’m thinking, would be increases to TNs equal to strife beyond willpower. I was thinking much the same. Except ring dice cause strife on evens (50/50 like the d6 in fifth ed) and skill dice cause strife on 3,6 and 9.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Apr 13, 2018 10:11:15 GMT -8
If you use Willpower for Composure you're looking at an average Composure of about 3. Even if you go Willpower+Void you're looking at 6. If you give strife for either Skill or Attribute dice you're keeping one over the other about 50% of the time, so 50% or more of your rolls will give Strife. So that means that If you give them 6 rolls in a session they will Unmask every session. Feels like a lot. I've run some roll tests and it seems that if you go with explosions giving the Strife, and then allow Meditation and sleep to remove Strife then it feels more balanced.
My thoughts: Strife should always occur on an explosion(no choice, to reflect the stressful nature of the explosion). I also think that strife should occur when anything below a 5 is kept(Chosen strife like in the beta). A successful Meditation roll should remove 1 Strife(TN10) +1 for each successful raise. Sleep should remove your Void in Strife. Composure should be Willpowerx2. I also think that there should be a TN increase of 1 per Strife over your Composure as Stu mentioned above. I think that is a great way to hinder the players if they choose to keep taking Strife.
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fredrix
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Post by fredrix on Apr 13, 2018 10:54:56 GMT -8
I vermently disagree that strife should occur on every explosion. Because sometimes explosions are just meant to be cool.
But yes your point that suggested “composure” pools are too small for the number of dice being rolled. I’m thinking about honor.
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Post by vyrrk on Apr 13, 2018 11:43:12 GMT -8
Yeah I agree with Fredrix. I would hate to have take strife for EVERY explosion since those are so awesome in general. But if I had a set number of red dice or whatever and THEY rolled "strife" I think I would be much happier.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Apr 13, 2018 16:37:46 GMT -8
Yeah I agree with Fredrix. I would hate to have take strife for EVERY explosion since those are so awesome in general. But if I had a set number of red dice or whatever and THEY rolled "strife" I think I would be much happier. I disagree, but I can see that this is a contentious point. And I still think that separating dice by skill and attribute will result in far too much Strife being rolled. If you want to do it that way then I think it should be Willpower and Awareness x2. That would give the average samurai an 8 Composure. A PC samurai would likely have at least a 10 Composure. And the "Strife" dice should be the attribute. Attribute is, generally speaking, going to be the smaller half of the dicepool. I hate to put in another roll because that makes it too damn crunchy, but I was thinking make an Honor check each time you add another Strife over your Composure to keep from Unmasking. So, say your Composure is 6 and you have 5 Strife. You make a roll and gain 2 more Strife from the roll. You would then have to make an Honor/Etiquette check to keep from acting out in the current scene/Unmasking. If you make the check, you still take the Strife but you hold back and continue on(taking the TN hit), if you fail you act out in some small way that brings you back to JUST your composure but also causes you an honor hit. If you choose to you can still Unmask and challenge someone etc just like in the Beta rules to lose half of your Strife. Now one thing that HAS to be stressed here is that your Outburst is not just "gripping my naginata and ready it for combat" or "crying" or "my temperature goes up and possibly flames", those are not Outbursts/Unmaskings. Outbursts/Unmaskings are SPECIFIC story choices that come with a mechanical tie in. Such as Inappropriate Remark where you make a comment you shouldn't make. This means you lose Glory and can ignore a Mental or Interpersonal Disadvantage. I would say it also causes an Honor loss. There is also the Challenge option, Shut Down, Compromise or Flee, and others. So those would have to be ported over as well and not just the Strife/Composure part.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Apr 13, 2018 16:47:44 GMT -8
I was just reading through some stuff on the FFG forums and I found this:
"one thought I had was associating Strife with a result of "1" and "9" on the d10. If those numbers came up, you could choose to suffer the Strife to reroll the "1" (exactly like the old Skill Emphasis), or to explode the die in case of a "9". This would simulate a character suffering the stress of a near failure or pushing himself harder to achieve a greater roll, respectively."
I think that's a decent way to do it, but it would mean some things would need to be tweaked. For example there are techniques that allow your dice to explode on a 9, there are also skill levels that do the same. So with this that would mean you'd allow 8's to explode with Strife. That's a lot of 'splodey dice. Not sure how that would affect probabilities.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Apr 17, 2018 6:16:59 GMT -8
What if you have a Strife track similar to the Wounds track? You could clone Wound levels as Strife levels, and key it off Air. I feel that using Willpower puts too much dependency on Earth, and Air tends to be the strongest ring for courtiers who I think would be more able to manage/hide the effects of Strife. In this way, we use a mechanic already present in the game, we can have Strife happen more often because of the greater capacity, and a character is gradually affected negatively as they gain more Strife. It could be reduced by the player choosing to have an outburst of some description, or by them doing something like meditating, having a tea ceremony, etc, etc.
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Post by SirGuido on Apr 17, 2018 18:50:57 GMT -8
What if you have a Strife track similar to the Wounds track? You could clone Wound levels as Strife levels, and key it off Air. I feel that using Willpower puts too much dependency on Earth, and Air tends to be the strongest ring for courtiers who I think would be more able to manage/hide the effects of Strife. In this way, we use a mechanic already present in the game, we can have Strife happen more often because of the greater capacity, and a character is gradually affected negatively as they gain more Strife. It could be reduced by the player choosing to have an outburst of some description, or by them doing something like meditating, having a tea ceremony, etc, etc. And you could have the same sort of Advantages/Disadvantages too. Instead of Strength of the Earth you'd have like "Hard to fluster" and instead of Permanent Wound you'd have "Always on edge". You know what jimbo, I think you have something here.
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Post by yojimbohawkins on Apr 18, 2018 0:19:09 GMT -8
What if you have a Strife track similar to the Wounds track? You could clone Wound levels as Strife levels, and key it off Air. I feel that using Willpower puts too much dependency on Earth, and Air tends to be the strongest ring for courtiers who I think would be more able to manage/hide the effects of Strife. In this way, we use a mechanic already present in the game, we can have Strife happen more often because of the greater capacity, and a character is gradually affected negatively as they gain more Strife. It could be reduced by the player choosing to have an outburst of some description, or by them doing something like meditating, having a tea ceremony, etc, etc. And you could have the same sort of Advantages/Disadvantages too. Instead of Strength of the Earth you'd have like "Hard to fluster" and instead of Permanent Wound you'd have "Always on edge". You know what jimbo, I think you have something here. I was inspired by the GeneSys ruleset. I've been doing a bit of tinkering with it, creating a Shadowrun hack and, due to my general dissatisfaction with 5E, an L5R one as well. The social encounter rules in GeneSys feel very suitable for an L5R setting; as they were created by Kat Ostrander, that's not very surprising. The seperate wounds and strain thresholds fit very well, so it seemed fitting to adapt that to 4E.
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