Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Sept 4, 2017 11:18:52 GMT -8
While the game isn't steam punk the mad science rules in Demon Hunters A Comedy of Terrors might suit your needs. It's designed around the idea of making unreliable breakthroughs and prototypes that work for a short period and need a lot of downtime to turn into something permanent. This sounds interesting and right along the lines of the feel I would like to have unreliable, works for a short time. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Sept 4, 2017 11:15:07 GMT -8
Thanks for the suggestions. I will take another look at Savage Worlds 1889.
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Sept 2, 2017 17:17:39 GMT -8
We just completed a 2 year supers campaign and after discussing what to do for our next epic campaign, the group was heavily in favor of Steampunk. When discussing character ideas, several of the players talked about the building and crafting anything from steam powered gadgets to automatons.
While there are quite a few steampunk systems (Victoriana, Airship Pirates, Iron Kingdoms, and so on) and generic systems with steampunk settings books, such as Savage Worlds' Steamscapes & Space 1889. I have yet to find one that really has both a good crafting system and is not lousy with Elves and Dwarves. If we wanted Elves and Dwarves, we would play a fantasy game.
I was hoping the Douchessembly on the forum could provide suggestions for steampunk systems and approaches to crafting.
I thought it would be helpful for me to define what I mean by a "good" crafting system.
1. It allows the inventor/crafter to create new devices, though not necessarily in the middle of combat 2. The new devices allow flexibility in a character's abilities without being unbalancing or being able to overshadow every other player 3. There is a real, meaningful cost to the character for crafting, otherwise everyone would be a crafter, with the cost being much higher for something that is permanent and significant than a device that provides a temporary and minor benefit 4. It works in a group setting, and isn't just solo play 5. It isn't just shopping with another name, as shopping trip sessions are boring for everyone but the shopper (I'm glad Stu has clamped down on those sessions in the APs)
I'm sure I am missing several factors that make for a good crafting system.
I've considered using the Apocalypse World Savvyhead Playbook approach with their crafting move:
When you go into your workspace and dedicate yourself to making a thing, or to getting to the bottom of some shit, decide what and tell the MC. The MC will tell you “sure, no problem, but…” and then 1 to 4 of the following: it’s going to take hours/days/weeks/months of work; first you’ll have to get/build/fix/figure out ___; you’re going to need ___ to help you with it; it’s going to cost you a fuckton of jingle; the best you’ll be able to do is a crap version, weak and unreliable; it’s going to mean exposing yourself (plus colleagues) to serious danger; you’re going to have to add ___ to your workplace first; it’s going to take several/dozens/hundreds of tries; you’re going to have to take ___ apart to do it.
I've also considered repurposing Ars Magica's approach to researching new spells and inviting new items. The system has a significant cost of time, resources (Vim), and chance of failure. (Or at least it did, I haven't played Ars Magica since 1994) The time portion was literally in units of 3 months and you were a middle ages wizard who might be able to stretch their life span to 60 before blowing yourself up.
What are other crafting approaches that you have seen/used and how have they worked?
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Jul 3, 2017 21:11:39 GMT -8
Regardless of what PbtA system you choose, I strongly suggest reading "The Dungeon World Guide". You can download it here: www.dungeon-world.com/downloads/When I first started playing PbtA, I kept trying to play it like games that I was used to (D&D, Hero, GURPS, Savage Worlds and so on). After reading this, I began to understand how I needed to think differently about PbtA games. This has made PbtA games so awesome for me, breaking the old thinking in good ways. Success with a cost, soft vs. hard moves, GM moves, players make all the rolls, and so much more that has been discussed above. I've played and enjoyed Dungeon World, Spirit of 77, and Monster of the Week. If you want a fairly comprehensive list of Apocalypse World Hacks to choose from, there is a great list here: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1whsN3C5e31CZfo8hqlJbiKTPBX9kkCDSEG_An9FlP5s/edit#gid=0
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Aug 30, 2013 15:17:47 GMT -8
Here is a discussion of the Savage Statistics: Savage Worlds Results Charts
I personally like this post because it provides graphs that allow you to see some of the anomalies of the Savage dies when adding in the exploding die and wild die. Anomalies such as: you have a slightly better chance of beating a target number with a on increment lower die than the die with the same number of sides as the target number. For instance, if your target number is 6. You have a slightly higher probability of meeting or exceeding a 6 with a d4 and the d6 wild die than you do with a d6 and a d6 wild die. Because of exploding, the d4 has a an 18.8% chance of reaching a 6 or above, while the d6 only has a 16.7% chance of reaching a 6 or above. The percentage chance for the d6 wild die is the same for both cases. The final result is: TN 6 d4 + d6 wild die = 32.3% chance of success TN 6 d6 + d6 wild die = 30.6% chance of success This is the only situation where it is actually better to have a d4 versus a d6. This same inversion happens in all of the following cases: TN 8 d6 + d6 wild die (27.0%) vs TN 8 d8 + d6 wild die (25.3%) TN 10 d8 + d6 wild die (18.4%) vs TN 10 d10 + d6 wild die (17.5%) TN 12 d10 + d6 wild die (11.5%) vs TN 12 d12 + d6 wild die (10.9%) While this is a curiosity of the system, unless you know you will always be trying to achieve a TN 8, then the higher die is superior. But for you true min/max'ers the real key to success is edges. A d4+2 is superior to a d6 for TN 4 through 9 and TN 11 to 13. It is superior to d8 for TN 4 and 8 and tied at TN 5,7, and 9. If you expect typical TNs a d4 with an edge that gives you a +2 to your roll is superior to a d8, and it costs the same and it doesn't require you to have as high of an associated stat, which also saves you points. Of course, this is why most edges that give you a +2 to a skill require you to purchase a minimum amount, but even with the minimum you are better-off taking the +2 than trying to buy up the die of the skill any further.
MD
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Aug 3, 2013 18:34:18 GMT -8
If you're only getting to play every two weeks for just a few hours maybe its time to "have shit happen". . . have a ship show up, have a stranger show up, have a stowaway show up, etc..just something that will demand their immediate attention and cease the conversing. I agree with Curt that you need to have shit happen when the inevitable motivation questioning begins. For a game that is 2 to 3 hours every couple weeks, a 15 minute tangent on what is our motivation could be absorbing more than 10% of your play time. So, you need to be ready to act and act fast. In fact, as part of your game prep you might want to plan pontification interrupters, as there are some points that are more likely to result in her navel gazing than others. If you would like the interruptions to be more structured, you could take a page from Starblazer Adventures (a Fate based game using an older version of Fate). In this they describe a technique called Character Stress (Chapter 24) where you spell out specific events that will occur after a specific player has cumulatively performed sufficient actions to justify the event. I n this case, you could create a character stress track that gives her some leeway to question motives but after she has accumulated enough stress (in this case by inflicting real world stress on the other players) then events begin to happen. Her character stress doesn't reset, instead it just keeps accumulating with more dramatic things happening over time as she pontificates more and more. I would suggest finding ways to make the consequences deeply personal to her character, like she discovers while she is questioning the motivation, that the murders that have been occurring are using a technology that she invented before she retired from being a scientist, so she is indirectly responsible for the murders. While she still might be questioning the motivation, it would actually allow the other players to turn the table on her and start questioning her motives for trying to stop or slow down the investigation. Or perhaps take a more direct approach to endanger her. For example, the enemy knows that she attends combat through remote drones while the other characters don't. When she begins to question the motives, one of the stress events could be that Enemy Organization X storms her location while her colleagues are off fighting elsewhere. Now, not only will this stop her questioning the motives, it will be a direct negative consequence to her while leaving her colleagues out of it. I think it was great what your player did to express his displeasure, but this is the kind of player versus player stuff that can quickly lead to a game breaking apart. Players expect the GM to throw challenges at them (some might even say that they expect the relationship between player and GM to be antagonistic, but that is for another discussion thread). So, throwing consequences her way is completely acceptable. Having other players do it requires sophisticated roleplayers who know the difference between their characters and themselves. Finally, you should talk to the player about why she insists on questioning the motivation so thoroughly at the wrong time and if she even notices the negative effect it is having on the other players. There are many possibilities for her actions, including that she thinks her character would behave this way to she is completely oblivious to the negative effect her behavior is having on the game and the other players. It is my experience that too often we are all completely clueless as to how our actions impact others. I learned this when I managed to break-up a Fantasy Hero campaign because my healer was a religious zealot and two of the other players couldn't stand how aggressively I played it. At the time, I felt I was playing totally in character, in hindsight, I was too focused on me to see how I needed to adjust the way I played the zealotry so that we all were having fun, not just me. A good kick in my ass by the GM at that time would have been really helpful.
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Jul 25, 2013 15:01:40 GMT -8
As for Claire's comment that a character with the advantage of something like always has a weapon wouldn't be able to produce a weapon when naked, I think Brock Samson has a rebuttal.
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Jul 25, 2013 14:54:37 GMT -8
While the character is not bound to the numbers on the page, it still was created with those numbers in mind, so porting a character means the character will never feel quite the same. Absolutely agree that this is the fundamental challenge. The character will never feel quite the same. Rather than try to make them feel the same, whenever I've done this in the past, I'd work with the players to embrace that you get to take parts of your character that are familiar, the essence Stu discusses, but make them something new. Enjoy the new, enjoy what opportunities the new system provides for your character. As a GM, when I make a system switch, my best successes have been when we just went all out. We did this last year with a group of characters we loved playing. The characters (D&D3.5) were getting a little stale after 6 years, so we changed it up by going alternative universe using Savage Worlds and moving our characters, the Loose Collection of Adventurers (not to be confused with the Collection of Loose Adventurers), to a modern world A-Team genre. Our gnome paladin who rides his war boar into battle and fights for the little guy. Became a midget private eye who works pro-bono for worthy cases and drives a custom Harley, his Hog. Our Elf Sorceress pyromaniac, became a hacker arsonist that intended to burn down the evil in the world, through her keyboard magic or more conventional explosives, if necessary. The character relationships remained, providing a cohesive group from the first moment, but the new capabilities and challenges that we were able to explore breathed new life into the game.
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Max Damage
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 9
Preferred Game Systems: 5e, PbtA, Hero, Fate, Savage Worlds, Star Wars D6 & FFG, PDQ
Currently Playing: Savage Worlds
Currently Running: Savage Worlds
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Post by Max Damage on Jul 24, 2013 23:52:51 GMT -8
Hello Jackers!
While I've been listening since season 5, (thank God there wasn't much backlog I had to consume) I felt it was about time to join the conversation. Of all the podcasts, without a doubt Happy Jacks is the most enjoyable RPG podcast out there. I find the show has a great sensibility. There is a passion for the hobby but also a nice balance with actual life and ribald humor that makes it clear that you are real people. Oh, and the sound quality is awesome, so even my old ears can hear it clearly while commuting. You can actually tell which host is talking! Stu, please share your wisdom with other podcasts, and especially Actual Plays, how to record sessions.
As for me, I am an old time role player starting in 1975. We played OD&D and I still have my copy of the original 3 volume set. I was blessed with a dad who decided to start a hobby store in the mid-70s. As a result, my brothers and I, got to see a lot of great early games - Traveller, Villains & Vigilantes, Melee/Fantasy Trip, and a whole bunch of bad ones, like Boot Hill (with its 22% chance of instant death when your character is hit by a bullet), John Carter of Mars - great leads not a good game, host favorite Top Secret, and Chartmaster err I mean Rolemaster.
Shortly after its release our gaming group went all in with Champions, and then Justice, Inc. and Danger International. I stayed with Hero through 1994. Though I threw a few years of GURPS in, as that was the game of choice at my university, Star Wars D6 (that game was awesome, character gen in under 15 minutes), and Ars Magica.
In 1994, I dropped out of the hobby for many years because of that marriage thing. Once again, I was blessed to have an incredibly nerdy daughter. She gave me a great excuse to convince my wife that I needed to get back into the hobby. After all, what nerds education isn't complete without playing D&D? Since my restarting my RPG addiction, I don't game as much as I'd like, and most of it is D&D 3.5. I do manage to get the occasional other game in, like Savage Worlds, PDQ (Truth & Justice), Fate - Spirit of the Century and Starblazer Adventures (this is the best rpg book ever, as 1/2 of it is made up of selections of the really hard to find but wonderful Starblazer Adventures Comics), Mutants & Masterminds, and a few hippie games.
Thanks Stu and the gang for a great podcast. Looking forward to listening to many more.
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