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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 13:47:49 GMT -8
Alright, so I'm still not sure I'm properly using consequences in my game.
Obviously, if someone gets a consequence of say "cracked ribs" in combat, I give the other guy a free tag of it, for a +2. Likewise, anyone beating up on the character, that has the Fate Point to spend, gets a +2.
But I'm not entirely sure how to use such things when it's not combat.
Supposed the girl with the "cracked ribs" is trying to climb up something. I'm doing an Athletics check. Now, if I want to, I can *compel* the consequence, right?
If I do that, does she get a Fate Point from me?
Also, what does the compel mean, in this case? That she fails the climb? Or just that the Athletics check is 2 levels higher?
I feel like consequences aren't having the weight that they should in my game. And someone recently took a severe physical consequence (nicked artery). We've done the recovery, so he's not bleeding anymore... but I want to milk it for all it's worth, to show the... um... consequences?... of having a consequence.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
--Pukka Tukka
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 14:55:29 GMT -8
Sounds like you are using them as they are actually designed. They basically just become an aspect that when tagged or compelled by the GM gives an edge over the player.
Now the way I do it when running core FATE is that a consequence like the "Cracked Ribs" you mention is an automatic compel on any task they would relate to and do not garner a FATE point. The consequence itself was a reward of sorts preventing them from taking damage afterall. So an physical task such as running, jumping, or climbing trees, would be at a minus until the consequence had been dealt with. Likewise consequences that effect mental or social abilities.
I feel this makes consequences a more serious issue and it adds to the drama a little. As a side note I also allow the players to spend a FATE point to override the minus they would receive as if they were forcing through the pain or something similar. Thus giving them a way to get around it for a cost.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 4:21:01 GMT -8
I like that idea, tentagil. On the other hand, though, I have told them we're trying out the game this time *as* written... and I do suck at remembering to give them Fate points, so maybe I should leave it as is.
I'm torn. Honestly, combat isn't a very big part of our game, so far. Not just combat... conflicts in general. So once you're out of the fight, consequences don't hold a lot of weight in this game. But I want them to.
I may talk this over with the group. Personally, I think I prefer your method.
--Pukka Tukka
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willh
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Post by willh on Sept 27, 2012 5:59:29 GMT -8
Consequences are just aspects. All the normal rules apply. If they are compelled, the character gets a FATE point. There is only one instance where a compel doesn't give a character a FATE point, paying off sponsor debt. When an aspect complicates a character's life they get rewarded with a FATE point. The point of consequences is to provide more opportunities for those complications. Not rewarding players for those complications is completltly against the spirit of the game and a terrible idea.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 11:22:48 GMT -8
See I haven't played the Dresden Files version of the rule set and it does alter a number of elements. In Core you volunteer to take consequences rather then damage. The first consequence is mild, the second is moderate, and the third is severe. They don't have a set minus to them, a character can only have three at a time, and they last until the character has had enough rest to recuperate. Severe usually take days, moderate perhaps a good nights sleep, mild an hour or so of rest.
So with that cracked rib its going to stay with them at least a day or more and its going to effect them in ways outside of combat because anytime they do anything strenuous its going to hurt and slow them down. You compel the aspect as they try to stealth fully slip over a fence, their rib sends out a sharp pain and they cry out.
Perhaps they were hit in the face and have a broken nose, when they are trying to talk their way past someone you can compel it as it effects how easily they intimidate someone since they have obviously already been beaten up.
As with anything in FATE alot of it is going to be based on how creative you get.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 14:35:23 GMT -8
Tentagil, that's pretty much how they are in Dresden. Some small (possibly semantic) differences, but otherwise the same.
Yeah, I think I'm gonna have a talk with my group, see how they'd like to do it.
Will, when you compel a consequence later, what does that do? Increase the difficulty of something they're attempting? Or cause something to fail? Or just add in a new complication to the situation because of their aspect?
--Tony
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willh
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Post by willh on Sept 27, 2012 17:17:15 GMT -8
Will, when you compel a consequence later, what does that do? Increase the difficulty of something they're attempting? Or cause something to fail? Or just add in a new complication to the situation because of their aspect? --Tony It could do any of those things and more. Well increasing difficulty is kind of meh. Other possibilities might be making a failed result worse than normal, or require the character to choose between two bad options. All these options really boil down to adding a new complication/making things more interesting.
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freyki
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Post by freyki on Sept 27, 2012 18:01:58 GMT -8
In the Strands of Fate version, they deal with lasting consequences by calling them persistent (P). Incidentally, they have about the same duration as tentagil describes up thread. Persistent aspects don't gain a fate point when compelled or tagged (although Strands drops the tagged term, IIRC).
LofA isn't that explicit about free compels of consequences, but it's one of the good things about Strands, so my group has ported it over. At least for the nontrivial levels of consequences.
BTW, one of the critiques often leveled at Fate variants on rpg.net is that consequences appear and disappear, depending on whether the GM wants to grant the player a fate point or not. So using some sort of persistent or lasting aspects that can be compelled without a fate point goes a long way towards answering this criticism.
-Freyki-
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willh
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Post by willh on Sept 27, 2012 20:17:20 GMT -8
Strands of FATE is pretty much FATE by and for people who don't get FATE, and its persistent aspect rule is the worst part of it. The thing about aspects is they don't represent what is or is not true in the game world. The represent what is importent to the story. That's why you don't, and should not, get a bonus on a persistent basis for something like taking cover or a penalty for say a cracked rib.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 4:04:18 GMT -8
Intensity of response aside, Will, I think you just hit on something. Consequences aren't about balance. They're not about paying for failure in a conflict. They're about story. Like everything else. So I should compel the consequence, bit it Mild, Moderate, or Severe, every time it can make the story more interesting. And no more or less than that. Nice. Thanks, Will... good "lightbulb" moment for me. I'm gonna talk with my group about this, but I think I get it now. Cool. --Pukka Tukka
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freyki
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Post by freyki on Sept 28, 2012 10:11:16 GMT -8
Yeah, Strands read a lot like a hybrid of Fate and Hero system to me. There's a reason that my group is switching from Strands to LofA for our fantasy game.
That being said, I'm still on the fence about aspects that can last and be compelled for free during their duration. As a Fate newbie, I'm willing to admit that I have a lot to learn before I really get Fate.
I probably should have done more research before buying Strands. I was looking for a generic version of Fate, and didn't realize that Fate is, at its essence, pretty generic on its own.
That's one of the dangers of jumping into a new system without knowing anyone who plays out already.
-Freyki-
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willh
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Post by willh on Sept 28, 2012 10:25:13 GMT -8
I would recommend taking a look at Diaspora. Their take on FATE is more ________*, but they stay true to FATE's emphasis on story. They even manage to make it tactical in some ways. Sector creation is pretty slick too. *Fill in the blank with crunchy, traditional, or whatever you like. No matter which one I choose there will be definition issues, so pick your own.
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freyki
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Post by freyki on Sept 28, 2012 14:29:21 GMT -8
I've recently fallen in love with the basic, non-implementation of fate, Fred Hicks' Core of Fate Core. Add some magic system, and I'm good for a fantasy game.
I have used the diaspora system generation rules, for my fantasy kingdoms. Worked great for our group, very fun!
-Freyki-
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 20:28:43 GMT -8
I'm really interested in see what the final version of the new FATE Core will look like once its out. Sounds like alot of changes are coming along pulling pieces from alot of the different FATE incarnations out there.
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