HyveMynd
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Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
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Post by HyveMynd on Nov 26, 2012 22:09:39 GMT -8
One of the things I don't like about WoD is the morality system (sorry). Don't get me wrong, it totally works for their setting and system because you kinda start out, oh I don't know... Fucking Evil?! It takes very narrow moral ideals that they have determined to be 'good' and shoves them down the player's throat. Not to cause another flame war, but I really don't know where you're getting that assumption from, savagedaddy. You don't start out as "evil" in the nWoD games any more than in other games. I mean, I get how you could think that, since WW's two most popular lines are Vampire: the Requiem and Werewolf: the Forsaken in which you play... wait for it... vampires and werewolves, but none of the PCs start out "Fucking Evil" as you put it. As ironnikki brought up though, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, Promethean, and probably even Geist all have a "modified code of ethics" that replaces the standard Morality in the base nWoD ruleset. So let's ignore those. I'm talking about the "standard" Morality scale here. Here's why I like the nWoD Morality scale. Yes, you can say it has a narrow view of good and evil, as it reflects mostly a Western world view. But I think most, if not all of the things on the scale are universal. Most cultures believe that stealing, injury to others, and murder are wrong. I don't see this as "playing the Ten Commandments". Also, the Morality scale doesn't dictate a character's personality. It simply creates a "comfort zone" of actions they find acceptable or not. Making a character who has the personal code of "look out for number one" doesn't mean you have to choose a specific Morality level; you could play a character with that personal code at Morality 8 or ar Morality 4. A Morality 8 character just wouldn't physically hurt anyone (intentionally or not) while looking out for themselves, while a Morality 4 character would have no problem inflicting damage on (but not killing) a person and committing mass property damage while following that code. Anyway, I won't belabor the point as you said you don't want to use something like the nWoD Morality system. I do have some questions though. The guy who has 'Look out for number one' isn't necessarily a psychopath. If he agrees to put himself at risk for the sake of the game or the group, he is violating a value which can put him at risk of losing his humanity and going mad. I'm not understanding why someone with the personal code of "look out for number one" is in danger of loosing Humanity if he puts himself at risk to help the group. I think it could be argued that would make the character more human/moral, as he is connecting with other people. He's being selfless which is almost always seen as being a good and noble thing. So why is he in danger of becoming less human? It sounds to me as you're making "personal code" mechanics and not "humanity/morality" mechanics. I think that most cultures/societies will have a well-developed idea of what is "moral/immoral" and have a (possibly loose) ranking system of which offenses are more/less severe. In real life there's a standard that everyone is judged against. Don't steal, be nice to your neighbors, violence is wrong, etc. If that's the kind of thing you're going for, then I think there needs to be a universal standard that all the characters are held to, assuming they all come from the same culture/society. Like the nWoD Morality scale. But if you're making "personal code" mechanics to show that people who violate their codes end up in bad situations, that's something completely different in my opinion. I would argue that people who violate their personal codes don't lose their humanity, but instead lose their sense of self. The loner who "always looks out for number one" above all else, but then confronts a horde of zombies single-handedly so that the rest of the party can get away isn't less human; he's more human. Think of Lieutenant Goreman from the movie Aliens. He probably had the "look out for number one" personal code. He didn't have to go back for Vasquez. Hell, we saw that he was a chicken shit throughout the whole movie. He could've kept right on crawling through that ventilation shaft and left her ass there. But he didn't; he went back to help her, and it cost him his life. He proved he was human though. (By the way, if I just spoiled Aliens for you, you deserve to be beaten. Seriously.) Now if your personal code matches with what society says is good, then violating your code could cause you to lose Humanity. If you're code is "protect children" and you violate that, then yes. I see how that makes you less human. But if you're allowing players to have "selfish" personal codes, I don't think you can call it Humanity. If I recall, there's something about this in the Savage Worlds Horror Companion.
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 26, 2012 23:58:09 GMT -8
One of the things I don't like about WoD is the morality system (sorry). Don't get me wrong, it totally works for their setting and system because you kinda start out, oh I don't know... Fucking Evil?! It takes very narrow moral ideals that they have determined to be 'good' and shoves them down the player's throat. Not to cause another flame war, but I really don't know where you're getting that assumption from, savagedaddy. You don't start out as "evil" in the nWoD games any more than in other games. I mean, I get how you could think that, since WW's two most popular lines are Vampire: the Requiem and Werewolf: the Forsaken in which you play... wait for it... vampires and werewolves, but none of the PCs start out "Fucking Evil" as you put it. As ironnikki brought up though, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, Promethean, and probably even Geist all have a "modified code of ethics" that replaces the standard Morality in the base nWoD ruleset. So let's ignore those. I'm talking about the "standard" Morality scale here. Here's why I like the nWoD Morality scale. Yes, you can say it has a narrow view of good and evil, as it reflects mostly a Western world view. But I think most, if not all of the things on the scale are universal. Most cultures believe that stealing, injury to others, and murder are wrong. I don't see this as "playing the Ten Commandments". Also, the Morality scale doesn't dictate a character's personality. It simply creates a "comfort zone" of actions they find acceptable or not. Making a character who has the personal code of "look out for number one" doesn't mean you have to choose a specific Morality level; you could play a character with that personal code at Morality 8 or ar Morality 4. A Morality 8 character just wouldn't physically hurt anyone (intentionally or not) while looking out for themselves, while a Morality 4 character would have no problem inflicting damage on (but not killing) a person and committing mass property damage while following that code. Anyway, I won't belabor the point as you said you don't want to use something like the nWoD Morality system. I do have some questions though. The guy who has 'Look out for number one' isn't necessarily a psychopath. If he agrees to put himself at risk for the sake of the game or the group, he is violating a value which can put him at risk of losing his humanity and going mad. I'm not understanding why someone with the personal code of "look out for number one" is in danger of loosing Humanity if he puts himself at risk to help the group. I think it could be argued that would make the character more human/moral, as he is connecting with other people. He's being selfless which is almost always seen as being a good and noble thing. So why is he in danger of becoming less human? It sounds to me as you're making "personal code" mechanics and not "humanity/morality" mechanics. I think that most cultures/societies will have a well-developed idea of what is "moral/immoral" and have a (possibly loose) ranking system of which offenses are more/less severe. In real life there's a standard that everyone is judged against. Don't steal, be nice to your neighbors, violence is wrong, etc. If that's the kind of thing you're going for, then I think there needs to be a universal standard that all the characters are held to, assuming they all come from the same culture/society. Like the nWoD Morality scale. But if you're making "personal code" mechanics to show that people who violate their codes end up in bad situations, that's something completely different in my opinion. I would argue that people who violate their personal codes don't lose their humanity, but instead lose their sense of self. The loner who "always looks out for number one" above all else, but then confronts a horde of zombies single-handedly so that the rest of the party can get away isn't less human; he's more human. Think of Lieutenant Goreman from the movie Aliens. He probably had the "look out for number one" personal code. He didn't have to go back for Vasquez. Hell, we saw that he was a chicken shit throughout the whole movie. He could've kept right on crawling through that ventilation shaft and left her ass there. But he didn't; he went back to help her, and it cost him his life. He proved he was human though. (By the way, if I just spoiled Aliens for you, you deserve to be beaten. Seriously.) Now if your personal code matches with what society says is good, then violating your code could cause you to lose Humanity. If you're code is "protect children" and you violate that, then yes. I see how that makes you less human. But if you're allowing players to have "selfish" personal codes, I don't think you can call it Humanity. If I recall, there's something about this in the Savage Worlds Horror Companion. Waving a white flag against a flame war.. not my intention. You bring up some very valid points, especially 'Personal Code' versus 'Morality'. Symantec's, suck. I'm having flashbacks to the Stu and Tappy 'Crunch' debate. Ugh... Putting Humanity and Morality labels aside for a moment. Allow me to try to explain what I want out of the mechanic... In a few words, "Psychological Consequences and Dramatic Tension". The main idea being that in a world gone to shit (survival horror game settings) how hard do you try to play by 'society's rules' when society has crumbled? Do you change your life philosophy overnight, or cling to it as a source of hope? How do you balance the disturbing choices you make to survive against moral concepts of 'good' and 'evil' or 'right' and 'wrong'? What affect does that have on your psyche? I'm attempting to capture the feel of a "crisis of conscious". If you're a devout Christian, how do you deal with killing someone to protect the location of your camp and ensure the safety of your family? Most would probably say, "it was self defense". That's a good rationalization, but when you way 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' against the actual experience -- isn't there a possibility of traumatic psychological damage? I guess what I'm saying is, continued survival in a horrific world where everything and everyone is a threat should have the potential for sociopath-like derangement or clinical insanity. The end result? A mechanic that simulates this without railroading character development while exposing them to the consequences. In all fairness, perhaps I should flip through nWoD. My last exposure to the storyteller system was via Vampire the Masquerade.
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Post by shadrack on Nov 27, 2012 6:32:57 GMT -8
re-skin and adapt the Sanity system from Realms of Cthulhu. It's much like a 3rd track. So now each PC would have a wounds, fatigue and madness track.
analogs
wounds ==> madness parry ==> roll spirit when break your 'code' damage ==> mental anguish toughness ==> sanity (1/2 spirit +2) soak w/ vigor ==> soak w/ smarts
If you get a level of madness, you could go 'insane' (temporary or permanent). delusional, depressed, paranoid, night terrors, etc.
Because the goal here is to have 'survival horror' if they break their own personal 'code of honor'. GM roll some mental anguish level depending on the scale of the transgression. (maybe 2d4 for minor, 2d6 for medium, 2d8 for signifcant, 2d10 for severe) Compare that to the PCs 'sanity' stat. I think this would be after the encounter so the shaken bit likely isn't a big deal.
PC win = no biggie lose by 0 - 3 = shaken lose by 4-7 = 1 madness lose by 8 - 11 = 2 madness lose by 12+ = 3 madness can soak w/ smarts
for each incident where you gain a level of madness, you roll spirit succeed w/ raise = temporary insanity (roll on table) for a bit succeed = insanity (roll on table) until healed (get therapy) fail = indefinite insanity (roll on table) ends when GM says it ends crit fail = unconscious, Sanity = sanity -1. + the fail result
Realms of Cthulhu does apply the negative / level of madness, but I don't think that's necessary here, but a lot of the disorders apply their own negatives, I would stick with those.
example disorders (shortened) depression => -1 benny delusions and hallucinations => -1 to notice and guts mania => -1 to trait rolls obsession (fixate on object or person) => -1 if that object or person isn't around paranoia => -1 to all rolls if not alone phobia etc..
While I am not sure Savage Worlds is the best system for this type of thing, I think something along these lines would keep things in the Savage line.
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 27, 2012 8:29:38 GMT -8
re-skin and adapt the Sanity system from Realms of Cthulhu. It's much like a 3rd track. So now each PC would have a wounds, fatigue and madness track. analogs wounds ==> madnessparry ==> roll spirit when break your 'code' damage ==> mental anguish toughness ==> sanity (1/2 spirit +2) soak w/ vigor ==> soak w/ smarts If you get a level of madness, you could go 'insane' (temporary or permanent). delusional, depressed, paranoid, night terrors, etc. Because the goal here is to have 'survival horror' if they break their own personal 'code of honor'. GM roll some mental anguish level depending on the scale of the transgression. (maybe 2d4 for minor, 2d6 for medium, 2d8 for signifcant, 2d10 for severe) Compare that to the PCs 'sanity' stat. I think this would be after the encounter so the shaken bit likely isn't a big deal. PC win = no biggie lose by 0 - 3 = shaken lose by 4-7 = 1 madness lose by 8 - 11 = 2 madness lose by 12+ = 3 madness can soak w/ smarts for each incident where you gain a level of madness, you roll spirit succeed w/ raise = temporary insanity (roll on table) for a bit succeed = insanity (roll on table) until healed (get therapy) fail = indefinite insanity (roll on table) ends when GM says it ends crit fail = unconscious, Sanity = sanity -1. + the fail result Realms of Cthulhu does apply the negative / level of madness, but I don't think that's necessary here, but a lot of the disorders apply their own negatives, I would stick with those. example disorders (shortened) depression => -1 benny delusions and hallucinations => -1 to notice and guts mania => -1 to trait rolls obsession (fixate on object or person) => -1 if that object or person isn't around paranoia => -1 to all rolls if not alone phobia etc.. While I am not sure Savage Worlds is the best system for this type of thing, I think something along these lines would keep things in the Savage line. Eureka! This is exactly what I'm looking for... of course it would be in the Realms of Cthulhu source book. A system similar to this will work. It's funny how intuitive Savage Worlds bare-bone mechanics seem to be. After my last post, I was leaning toward a 'mental combat' mechanic with a Sanity wound track and a Mental Injury Table with temporary derangement and permanent psychosis. Savage Worlds forum for the WIN
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Post by shadrack on Nov 27, 2012 8:51:56 GMT -8
It's an awesome sourcebook. The setting rules and 'dials' give you a lot of freedom in tweaking your setting. One thing I think it does really well is capture the 'madness spiral'. Get a madness, you get a disorder, and you have negatives on future rolls... eventually, you're boned.
The 'damages' I mentioned likely need adjustment, but a bit of experimentation should give you a good feel for it. You can also flip through the book and scale the madness damage based on some of the creepy critters in there.
I already jumbled some stuff up to try to tweak it to my interpretation of your situation, so feel free to use or disregard as you see fit.
keep it SAVAGE!
TLDR: Realms of Cthulhu rocks, buy it now! tweak as desired.
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Post by ironnikki on Nov 27, 2012 11:42:54 GMT -8
Well, I guess that's yet another book to add to my ever increasing pile... Good call, shadrack!
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 27, 2012 12:07:21 GMT -8
Well, I guess that's yet another book to add to my ever increasing pile... Good call, shadrack! One can never have too many source books. JiB
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Post by ericfromnj on Nov 27, 2012 17:46:50 GMT -8
Realms of Cthulhu is totally worth it.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Nov 27, 2012 18:58:26 GMT -8
Eureka! This is exactly what I'm looking for... Bah. I go to sleep for a few hours because I'm on the other side of the world and things get figured out with me. Boo. I think this still warrants a sit down with your players about what some acceptable "personal codes" are for the type of game you want. I could see different players showing up with very different codes. Like someone could be the "white knight" character and have a code of protecting the weak, saving people, doing good, blah blah blah while another person shows up with the "Jersey Shore douchebag code" that consists of be on the lookout for chicks who are DTF, GTL every day, and always match the kicks to the rest of the outfit. That's an extreme example of course, but it seems unfair to have one player potentially loose sanity when he is unable to save an innocent victim while another might lose sanity simply because he can't find red sneakers. Your examples still sound to me like a some sort of society-wide sense of "politeness" or normality. You've used the phrase "playing by society's rules", and I agree that is the central question of the survival horror genre. Those stories often ask "Is it better to survive, when survival means turning into something less than human?" Killing someone to protect the location of your camp and family should indeed cause a "crisis of conscious" in the character. We're in total agreement there. But if the character doesn't have "don't kill innocents" or something similar as part of their personal code, would they have to make a roll? In my opinion, if you allow players to come up with personal codes for their characters and then slam them with sanity rolls for things that aren't on their code, that's kind of unfair. But it's also kind of railroady to force them to include things in their personal code, such as not killing innocents, so that the basics of "polite society" are covered in everyone's personal code. I would suggest just having general guidelines, and having character make sanity rolls when those guidelines are broken. It sounds like Realms of Cthulhu does this already without directly saying it; you see/do something bad and you make a sanity check. Eclipse Phase (another favorite game of mine) works this way too. If you see or do something that violates society's rules or encounter something that breaks your sense of reality or sense of self, you have to make a Willpower test. Failure means you suffer a number of points of "mental damage", and when that damage gets too high your brain shuts down. Suffer too much stress at once and you develop a mental trauma, which can lead to mental derangements and disorders. They have a list of stressful situations and how much damage they could potentially do, including things like failing spectacularly while pursuing a major personal goal, being betrayed by a trusted friend, extended isolation, viewing extreme violence, losing a loved one, engaging torture, etc. EP also has a mechanic called hardening, representing characters becoming immune to certain horrific situations if encountered often enough. If you pass your Willpower check 5 times (total, not consecutively) for a specific situation, you never have to make a check for that situation again. The character has successfully built up a tolerance to that situation and is able to shake them off with no ill effect. Instead of players making a personal code for their characters (or one that is tied to sanity mechanics) why not just give them a number of "hardening points"? They can put these points into specific situations, and when there are 5 (or 3 or whatever) hardening points in that situation, they never have to make a sanity check when dealing with that situation. For example, the homicide detective character puts hardening points into "seeing dead bodies"; he's seen his share of gunshot and stab wound victims and so will never have to make a check when encountering a reasonable intact dead body. The zombie hunter puts hardening points into "seeing zombies"; she'll never have to make a sanity check when encountering a zombie under "normal "circumstances. The soldier can put points into "killing enemy combatants", you get the idea. Come up with a system where players can buy extra hardening points for their PCs at creation (representing a hard knock life) or cash them in for points back (they've had a sheltered life), or give out a certain number with every advance or rank. Again, give players the option to "return" those hardening points in exchange for other points. That way the players are choosing between being a hardened survivalist and trying to maintain societies rules in spite of the chaos. As usual, that ended up being much longer than I intended.
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Post by shadrack on Nov 27, 2012 21:15:44 GMT -8
I dig Eclipse Phase as well. I really want to be a member of the lost. anyway... I agree with Hyve, on a few points. But paramount is the need to discuss what you're going for and your ideas on how to represent it mechanically to your players. This is certainly an idea you need their buy-in for, and they need to feel free to come to you if they aren't feeling it the way you are. I also certainly wouldn't be opposed to the characters morphing a bit as time goes on. Someone's taken a trip down insane lane a few too many times, perhaps he heals all his madness (or isn't bothered by the killing other humans anymore - not ones outside of their group anyway), but now he has the 'callous' hindrance, or the like (and everyone knows). I don't think I've broken any new ground here, I just didn't want Hyve to have the last word. (nice tag line under your pic by the way)
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 28, 2012 0:14:56 GMT -8
Ta-Fing-Da! After making a Humanity statistic a Parry TN against Sanity attacks and treating psychosis like physical damage (RoC, Rippers) , the Humanity Mechanic fell into place. Bear in mind that this a cog in the wheel of a larger psychological damage system for a zombie apocalypse setting. Details here: happyjacks.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=savageworlds&thread=1253&page=3#11366 THE HUMANITY SYSTEM This variant rules system attempts to model a character's descent into barbarism, or their stubborn refusal to relinquish their humanity in the face of overwhelming evil. It is an abstraction of the Freudian concept of the psyche as a container for the three major components of human personality and behavior (the Id, the Ego, and Superego). If your Humanity starts to slip, you become detached, isolated, and less human which leaves you vulnerable to mental derangement and possible psychosis. When used with the Trauma System happyjacks.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=savageworlds&thread=1253&page=3#11366 Humanity is a Parry TN for attacks against a character’s Sanity (managed by a Trauma track similar to Wounds). This adds another layer of long term reward for living up to your personal code of ethics. Starting Humanity All characters begin with Humanity +4. As long as Humanity is a positive number, add +1 to all Spirit rolls. If Humanity is a negative number, subtract -1 from all Spirit rolls. Once Humanity has been determined, it can only be altered by modifiers gained from Edges or Hindrances, or through advancing the Spirit die one step. Each step in the permanent Spirit die adds +1 to Humanity. Why Humanity? Struggling to hold on to your humanity in a post-apocalyptic world is a common narrative theme of survival horror stories. Why not include an exploration of human nature and the psychology of survival in a Savage Worlds setting? Anyone who has seen a zombie movie understands the Living Dead are not the real threat. They are mere scenery by comparison to the remaining humans desperate for survival in a bleak world with little sense of hope. How far would you go to survive? Are you able to make the hard choices? Do you base decisions on your personal ethics or a mathematical equation of risk assessment and return on investment? When do you cease to be an individual and become a mere resource? More importantly; how do you reconcile your personal ethics with the hard choices and demands of your continued survival? Humanity: Not Morality All too often, "good characters" in roleplaying games devolve into a pack of Murder Hobos with no evidence of a conscience. The mechanic does not impose traditional morality on player characters. It is intended as an abstraction of free will. Decisions have consequences. Social interactions and acceptance play a role in your decisions because ultimately there is safety in numbers. Using Humanity instead of imposed ideals of morality or ‘right and wrong’ allows player character ethics to run the gambit from ‘the ends justify the means’ to ‘thou shalt not kill’. It simply doesn’t matter, as long as the character follows his individual code of conduct. However, the flip side of free will How It Works A character’s personal ideals are defined by their Edges and Hindrances. Many of the standard Hindrances provide a more traditional ethical code (Heroic, Code of Honor, Pacifist, etc.). New Edges and Hindrances can be created to better fit the survival horror setting. Optional Values: Adding a sentence or phrase to put a finer point on a Hindrance or Edge can add a great deal of depth to both the character and game play. For example, adding ‘especially children’ to the Heroic Hindrance ads another layer of detail that can personalize the plot-line for the character. Player characters then select the three most important Hindrances or Edges that define their individual code of ethics. Care should be taken to ensure there is no overlap. Then, they rank each on a scale of 1 – 3 in order of importance; 1 being the most important. Although consistently adhering to your personal ethics may put a character’s life at risk, or incite personal conflicts, it maintains their Humanity. Ignoring your ethics when it is easiest to do so may save their lives, but it also erodes your Humanity and leaves you presents a threat to a character’s Sanity in the long term. Using Humanity When your character stubbornly stands by his beliefs despite personal risk, or the detriment of the group they are rewarded with a Humanity Bennie equivalent to the relevant Hindrances rank. These bennies are color-coded to match the weight of the hindrance – with Red being most important, Blue second most important, and White the third most important. Humanity Bennies provide specific in game rewards as detailed below: • Red: Instantly remove one level of Fatigue, Wound, or Trauma • Blue: Ignore all Wound, Fatigue, and Spirit penalties before rolling • White: Increase a die one step prior to rolling When a character chooses to ignore his Hindrance to keep himself out of harm’s way or to suit the goals of others, the GM may offer a standard in-game benny to compel the character to follow his personal ethics. This leaves the character with two options: 1. Take the benny and act according to their Hindrance 2. Forfeit a benny of their own to deny the compulsion Denying a compulsion requires a ‘Rationalization’. Roll Smarts roll -2 and apply the result: • Success: The character rationalizes his behavior and suffers no further affect. • Raise: The GM returns the benny spent to deny the compulsion • Failure: The character suffers the permanent loss of -1 to Humanity. • Critical Failure: Permanent -1 to Humanity and Shaken.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 4:47:23 GMT -8
I see what you are trying to do here with the morality system... My knee jerk reaction to it is that you might be adding more book keeping to a game that is kinda book keeping lite on purpose?
I feel like morality systems are just another way to reward / punish the player, or another thing to complicate their lives. And thats fine, as GMs that's the entire job right? But I think, for my game anyway, Stork's solution is the most elegant. If you are the GM then it is your prerogative to ask your PCs to justify their actions at any point, so just do it if you feel it is merited.
maybe Savage worlds isn't the game you want to play right now?
<Jedi.Mind.Trick> These aren't the rules you're looking for </Jedi.Mind.Trick>
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Post by jazzisblues on Nov 28, 2012 7:44:08 GMT -8
SD,
Well written and thoughtful as always. I dig what you're doing here, not sure whether I will implement or not, but then I have players who don't need me to prod them to play the essence of their character.
As an example, fairly early on in my Sturmgeist campaign one of the pc's came upon an old woman who seemed to be washing clothes in the stream, the fact that it was the middle of the night was not lost on the pc. When she turned around and had no eyes the pc ran screaming off into the night without me prompting or asking for a die roll at all. Of course she kept turning up as the game progressed and his reactions were always awesome.
Cheers,
JiB
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Post by ironnikki on Nov 28, 2012 8:32:26 GMT -8
Pretty cool system you've put got there, savagedaddy. I like how it takes into account personal codes via Edges and Hindrances, and the mechanical benefit given. That feels very in line with Savage Worlds. I'd be really interested to hear how this plays out!
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Post by savagedaddy on Nov 28, 2012 13:06:10 GMT -8
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