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Post by Distracted on Feb 28, 2013 19:20:36 GMT -8
Hey All, First,it is not unheard of for me to fly off of the handle so do consider that when reading the following. I have a lot of respect for both Paizo, and Green Ronin as businesses in the hobby. Further, I am quite a fan of the Freeport setting books and have probably purchased them all at one time or another. I have all of the Pathfinder rulebooks and most of the setting material. I also believe that the guys involved in both companies are fairly savy not to mention well informed about their interests. So, I see the Kickstarter for Freeport: City of Adventure and am left to wonder: What the Hell? A 512 page book (impressive), but the level that one actually gets a printed copy of the book is $100. The Pathfinder rulebook is 596 pages and sells for $50 retail. 19.5 cents a page versus 8 cents a page? (Is my math right here?) This is at odds with my previous experiences with Kickstarters, as the projects actually seemed like bargains or well worth the involvement. Am I to guess that the published book will cost $100 or will it be closer to the $50 that the rule book goes for? If so am I paying for 2 books and getting one? Please help me understand what I have apparently failed to GROK. Does this mark a big change to the kickstarter ideal? Or is someone(s) out to fleece inattentive hobbyists?
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 28, 2013 22:04:37 GMT -8
You're ignoring all the other things that you get at that level.
There are a ton of PDFs as well.
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Post by fray on Feb 28, 2013 22:41:48 GMT -8
A bunch of pdf's that you may not want or already have... The cheapest level to get the book is $100. That's pretty crazy. It's lame that people making kickstarter project do not have a ''get just the book' level. And have that reasonably priced. There's been a bunch of discussion about this on the interwebs... they already have over 400 pages of material already in print. What is unclear is if this book is giving you 500+ pages of NEW material or just updating the rules to Pathfinder from 3.x material. Because is it's just updating and adding an adventure or two it's a crappy deal.
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 28, 2013 22:53:00 GMT -8
While I don't disagree that they probably should have had a level where you can just get the book, trying to claim that the 100 dollar level is an attempt to fleece the hobbyists is hyperbole at best. Just because you don' want something or want some other part of the package more doesn't mean that the other parts don't have monetary value. He breaks down the price to a per page basis. He ignores completely that there is more to that package than just the physical book. He's doing exactly what he's claiming that they're doing, only it's in a bid to discredit them.
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Post by fray on Feb 28, 2013 22:56:03 GMT -8
Yeah... just like with the Pathfinder MMO KS with that crap-ton of PDF's plus a BIG dungeon book for the $100 level. It was a decent value but most people discounted/dissed/insulted it because of all the thrid party pdf's that no one really wanted or already had.
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 28, 2013 22:59:13 GMT -8
Exactly. And while it's fair to say that you don't find enough value to back the project at that level, trying to claim that the items you aren't interested in have no value at all is kinda silly.
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Post by Distracted on Mar 1, 2013 7:11:22 GMT -8
Ayslyn, thank you for your posts. Upon first reading them I was a bit taken aback. It made me wonder, after lavishing so much praise on both companies, was that what he got from my post? That I was trying to discredit them? With a moment of reflection though I could see your perspective. They caused me to consider my reasons for posting in the first place (something I have not done very often.) As with most things in life I believe it is about perception. My "ideal" for Kickstarter has been that is a tool for gathering funds for new projects that may not be able to be funded otherwise, or possibly a guage to test if a project would generate enough interest to be worthwhile. My disappointment (as I currently view it) comes from the projects profit based conception. I am not ignorant of past projects making quite alot of money. This one seems to me concieved from the start at quite a large profit margin (hence the silly price per page comparison.) To clear up, my disappoinment stems from the use of Kickstarter to take advantage of hobbyist's enthusiasm for the tool to "overcharge" for a product. This may be a natural progression, but that does not mean I welcome it. I am also not unable to consider that my limited knowledge keeps me from realizing that this is not a profit generating scheme, but that would be the reason for my post. Please anyone with the time, inclination and knowledge explain if I have gone offbase with my ranting.
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Post by ayslyn on Mar 1, 2013 9:43:37 GMT -8
Except, again, they aren't overcharging for the product. It's not $100 dollars for just the book. It's $100 dollars for the whole package. Whether or not you're personally interested in anything else in the package, those components still have monetary value. Ignoring that is doing exactly what you're accusing them of doing.
And, again, the criticism that there isn't a cheaper option to just get the book is not unfair. Just not for the reasons that you posted. The argument that the $100 level doesn't have enough value for you is fair as well. Despite my love for the Freeport setting, I probably won't be backing this either, as I have the vast majority of those books already.
And just an FYI, when you use phrases like "Fleece the hobbyist" and "take advantage of hobbyist's enthusiasm for the tool to "overcharge" for a product" you are trying to discredit them. Period. It doesn't matter what kind of praise you heap on them. If your intent is not to lambast them and accuse them of malfeasance, then stay away from such loaded phrases.
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Post by Distracted on Mar 1, 2013 10:03:13 GMT -8
Thanks Ayslyn, I think your points are well made and I will continue to chew over your criticisms.
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