HyveMynd
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Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 6, 2013 16:21:43 GMT -8
I honestly have very little interest in playing a vampire pc (I know that's not all that WoD does). So not only are you a giant Savage Worlds fanboy, you also don't like vampires. Jeeze. What in the blue blazes is fricking wrong with you? You're right though. New World of Darkness does a lot more than vampires. Hell, my group used the core rules to play a 1960's hard boiled crime game that had absolutely no supernatural elements at all. The system is pure awesome. I'm still stuck on the not liking vampires thing though. You're at two strikes in my book now, JiB.
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Post by fray on Mar 6, 2013 18:35:13 GMT -8
fuck vampires
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 6, 2013 18:46:03 GMT -8
I'm sure some vampires woud give you a go, fray. Especially if you were bleeding at the same time. Dinner and entertainment all in one neat little package. ;D
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Post by inflatus on Mar 6, 2013 19:09:48 GMT -8
Only the Beckinsale types!
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Post by jazzisblues on Mar 6, 2013 21:53:12 GMT -8
See that right there is the crux of it for me. I don't see vampires as sexy or romantic. JiB
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Mar 6, 2013 22:48:54 GMT -8
See that right there is the crux of it for me. I don't see vampires as sexy or romantic. JiB I still fail to see what the problem is. Are you under the impression that Vampire: the Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem force players to be "sexy" or "romantic" vampires? Cause that's really not the case. Both games are about the internal conflict between man and monster. You were human, now you're not. You died. Now you eat humans. How do you wrap your brain around that one? Do you try to cling to what humanity you have left, or do you shed it entirely and become a beast? Both have pros and cons. The more humanity you retain, the less power you have but the easier it is for you to move among mortals. The more humanity you shed, the more powerful you become, but the harder is it to move among the herd. Can you find a balance?
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daniel
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 217
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Post by daniel on Mar 7, 2013 3:48:22 GMT -8
Wod really dos not make vampires sexy, heck there are pages dedicated to just how much crap you have to go trough to make a vampire body even be particularly useful for that practice. There is really only one coven? Clan? Of them that is about that. *Realizes he just defended WoD, goes in the corner screaming “Don’t touch me”* I always loved Mage both O and N wod but its so hard to make a long term game out of that just because its so insanely easy to do crazy things the story teller can in no way foresee especially if the players have engineering or physics degrees… any natural science.. just take away there books I do love reading the WoD books a lot of grate ideas, I just really don’t like the system but apply some fate or Gurps and its all good
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Post by malifer on Mar 7, 2013 4:14:19 GMT -8
See that right there is the crux of it for me. I don't see vampires as sexy or romantic. JiB I still fail to see what the problem is. Are you under the impression that Vampire: the Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem force players to be "sexy" or "romantic" vampires? Cause that's really not the case. Both games are about the internal conflict between man and monster. You were human, now you're not. You died. Now you eat humans. How do you wrap your brain around that one? Do you try to cling to what humanity you have left, or do you shed it entirely and become a beast? Both have pros and cons. The more humanity you retain, the less power you have but the easier it is for you to move among mortals. The more humanity you shed, the more powerful you become, but the harder is it to move among the herd. Can you find a balance? Fuck Anne Rice and her goddamn EMO Vamps. I like my vampires to be monsters. I don't mind the sexual nature that goes back to the origins of the original myth, but whiny type are no better than the sparkly type. Mainly because I don't think there is much to explore in matter of how much humanity is left. Once you're a murderous cannibal you're not going to win any Nobel Peace Prizes in my book I don't care how much you dislike being a murderous cannibal. If you really have any remorse you'll go and sit your ass in the Sun otherwise your just full of shit. I know most peoples gaming horror stories tend to be D&D based, but mine are White Wolf based. That's not to say the books are not well done and I do remember thinking the Changeling book was neat, but that was years ago.
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Post by ericfromnj on Mar 7, 2013 5:24:21 GMT -8
...I like the classical type of vampires the best (and I will always be fascinated with a book written entirely in communications between people like Dracula) but IIRC the only really "EMO" vampire in the Anne Rice novels is Louis, the guy being interviewed in the first book.
Hell, some of those vampires were downright monstrous...
Now, I do blame Anne Rice for everything that followed, which includes Twilight, so she should be put in the penalty box of writer shame for starting the ball rolling that created that.
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Post by ericfromnj on Mar 7, 2013 5:26:04 GMT -8
Fray, how can you dis the original Fright Night and the Lost Boys like that? It's not like all vampires are fucking sparkly or anything...
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Post by Stu Venable on Mar 7, 2013 5:53:53 GMT -8
Sorry, Fray's right.
Stephanie Meyers and Ann Rice (and especially the associated films) have ruined the vampire myth for most of us.
You've lost the war for perception.
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Post by jazzisblues on Mar 7, 2013 6:08:56 GMT -8
See that right there is the crux of it for me. I don't see vampires as sexy or romantic. JiB I still fail to see what the problem is. Are you under the impression that Vampire: the Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem force players to be "sexy" or "romantic" vampires? Cause that's really not the case. Both games are about the internal conflict between man and monster. You were human, now you're not. You died. Now you eat humans. How do you wrap your brain around that one? Do you try to cling to what humanity you have left, or do you shed it entirely and become a beast? Both have pros and cons. The more humanity you retain, the less power you have but the easier it is for you to move among mortals. The more humanity you shed, the more powerful you become, but the harder is it to move among the herd. Can you find a balance? I get that Hyve I really do. I think kind of like your reaction to Savage Worlds I had a similar reaction to WoD because my first exposure to it was players of a Vampire LARP way back in the day at a con. That coupled with the whiny emo self absorbed stories portraying vampires as eternally young beautiful with all the up sides but none of the bad parts of the very concept of being a vampire really soured me on the whole idea. Part of me wants to give the genre and the game another shot, but like you with Savage Worlds that first impression is really hard to get past. Cheers, JiB
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Post by shadrack on Mar 7, 2013 8:33:31 GMT -8
Actual Plays: I listen to a pretty good sized list of these, and I think you hit on several of the main reasons I like to listen to them. 1) I really enjoy audiobooks, and good APs are similar, if the story is interesting and the characters are worthwhile. I also get the feeling of watching people squirm when they are put in a tight spot. 2) I have difficulty carving time out for actually playing myself. This is my methadone. 3) I get to see how other systems work. 4) I get to see how other GMs work. I would like to mention another podcast in relation to Storks piling on discussion. One thing that I've heard Ross (and Caleb) from RPPR do in both their big 4E actual play, and their current Wild Talents AP (and Caleb's Eclipse Phase) is show the PCs that their actions have repercussions. The PCs directly effect the world by both their inaction and their action. This (as shown in those games) can lead to too many plot threads to wrap up tidily. Which, I feel, is the point. You may be a super hero, or a badass medieval awesome guy, you probably can't tie everything up in a nice little bow. You have to pick your priorities. And your decisions may come back to either reward you or cause you trouble. It's up to the PCs to make those decisions.
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Post by Kainguru on Mar 7, 2013 13:51:47 GMT -8
I still fail to see what the problem is. Are you under the impression that Vampire: the Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem force players to be "sexy" or "romantic" vampires? Cause that's really not the case. Both games are about the internal conflict between man and monster. You were human, now you're not. You died. Now you eat humans. How do you wrap your brain around that one? Do you try to cling to what humanity you have left, or do you shed it entirely and become a beast? Both have pros and cons. The more humanity you retain, the less power you have but the easier it is for you to move among mortals. The more humanity you shed, the more powerful you become, but the harder is it to move among the herd. Can you find a balance? Fuck Anne Rice and her goddamn EMO Vamps. I like my vampires to be monsters. I don't mind the sexual nature that goes back to the origins of the original myth, but whiny type are no better than the sparkly type. Mainly because I don't think there is much to explore in matter of how much humanity is left. Once you're a murderous cannibal you're not going to win any Nobel Peace Prizes in my book I don't care how much you dislike being a murderous cannibal. If you really have any remorse you'll go and sit your ass in the Sun otherwise your just full of shit. I know most peoples gaming horror stories tend to be D&D based, but mine are White Wolf based. That's not to say the books are not well done and I do remember thinking the Changeling book was neat, but that was years ago. To be fair Lestat wasn't whiny at all . . . not in the second book anyway. Louise was a total whine merchant and all the other vampire novels she wrote afterwards (covering the lives of the ancient vamps) were pretty much self indulgent cash generators . . . It was the world she made with all the other supernaturals that WoD sooooo obviously lifted and clumsily filed the serial number off. I liked her take on the nature of the Devil and the relationship between the Devil and God - the Devil is the Devil because that is what he has been tasked to be as part of God's bigger plan, he's not a rival or an adversary rather he plays (as an agent of Evil) a necessary role by providing the choices that come with freedom. A task so great that only God's brightest, most loved, most loyal and most talented servant could be asked to do . . . Aaron
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2013 14:19:41 GMT -8
For me most modern vampire stories, WoD included, suffer from some pretty fatal flaws. They are based on that fight to maintain humanity that Hyve mentioned, but ignore the repercussions that becoming a vampire would likely have on a real person.
Considering that turning into a vampire requires a person to die in a fairly violent manner at the hands of their vampiric sire, you have one hell of a shock to the system from the onset followed by the unending hunger for blood following it. Realistically a person waking up after that should have some serious mental issues going on that are just going to get worse as they realize what they have become. Insanity, in one form or another, should be pretty much a given for every single vampire in every single story.
Then you have the whole concept of maintaining one’s humanity. Honestly if the person was a truly good person to begin with the likelihood is that they are even more apt to go nuts from the process because they’ve just become a human predator. They’ve gone from being a good helpful person to someone who literally needs to feed on others to survive. As malifer mentioned those people are far more likely to go off and kill themselves then they are to make a prolonged fight to maintain humanity. I mean for a religious person they are already damned so suicide rather than committing murder would make a hell of a lot more sense. Those who really survive being a vampire for a long period of time are more likely to be psychopaths and sociopaths to begin with, people already on the edge or over it before they get turned.
Now some versions try to get around the requirement to feed on people by allowing the vampires to survive on blood from blood banks, or by having them feast on animals instead. But then you've just voided the humanity argument. If a vampire can survive on animals instead of humans, or jsut grab a bloody smoothy at the blood bank when they need a snack you no longer have any fight for humanity because the primary evil aspect, the feeding on and killing of humans, has been removed as an issue. Instead you just have people with really sensitive skin and Porphyria.
Vampires as the old myths portray them are monsters, there isn’t any humanity left because the person who died isn’t there anymore. The body was overtaken by an evil force of some kind that sustains its vessel through blood and fear by preying on the family of the deceased. Stroker tweaked it a little in Dracula but he still wrote about a monster who had given up the great part of his soul. The modern myth as created by Rice, WoD, and others just doesn’t make any sense to me. Nothing against the WoD system, old or new, but the mythology of WoD: Vampire just annoys the hell out of me.
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