merryprankster
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 243
Favorite Species of Monkey: Howler
|
Post by merryprankster on Oct 10, 2013 18:02:04 GMT -8
Happened across a copy of this at the FLGS today and snarfed it up. Looking forward to taking a bong rip, bathing in patchouli and then giving it a read.
|
|
D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
|
Post by D.T. Pints on Oct 10, 2013 20:01:07 GMT -8
Hey Bro! Its like that song...
The Overhead View is Of Me In A Maze And I see what I'm hunting two steps away But I take a wrong turn And I'm on the wrong path And the people all watching Enjoy a good laugh Embarrassed with failure I try to reverse The course that my tread had already traversed...
"You'll Never Get Outta This Maze!" "You'll Never Get Outta This Maze!"
-Maze (Phish)
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Oct 11, 2013 0:08:33 GMT -8
As malifer correctly said, don't be intimidated by the size of the book. About half of it is the Bestiary, and of the other half you only need to read read a few, relatively short chapters. I love the game, but really wish the book didn't look so daunting.
|
|
merryprankster
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 243
Favorite Species of Monkey: Howler
|
Post by merryprankster on Oct 11, 2013 8:39:00 GMT -8
Actually I was thinking the rulebook looked pretty small and welcoming. I suppose that's because the other rulebook I am reading at the moment is 40K. That's a daunting rulebook.
|
|
|
Post by jazzisblues on Oct 11, 2013 10:45:43 GMT -8
Actually I was thinking the rulebook looked pretty small and welcoming. I suppose that's because the other rulebook I am reading at the moment is 40K. That's a daunting rulebook. I'm with you, but then again I'm comparing it to the Hero System books. JiB
|
|
merryprankster
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 243
Favorite Species of Monkey: Howler
|
Post by merryprankster on Oct 11, 2013 16:21:14 GMT -8
Hmmm....I'm pretty sure hero was originally designed as a random word problem generator for Mathematicians and was later adapted for use as an RPG. That's probably makes it an unfair comparison in the "scary factor" test of a game.
|
|
|
Post by malifer on Oct 12, 2013 2:59:12 GMT -8
My major complaint is the more you read the DW book, the less you feel the need to have ever read it. It's a hefty tome with very little information. The big books you guys mention are rather dense with info.
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Oct 12, 2013 3:58:49 GMT -8
My major complaint is the more you read the DW book, the less you feel the need to have ever read it. That's actually exactly how I feel too, though maybe for a different reason than you, malifer. DW's whole philosophy (as with all Apocalypse World games), is to "play to find out what happens". And to that end, lots of questions, both fictional and rules-based, are left for the group to work out on their own. The DW book tells you how to do that, so the more you read it, the less you need it.
|
|
tomes
Supporter
Hello madness
Posts: 1,438
Currently Running: Dungeon World, hippie games, Fallout Shelter RPG hack
|
Post by tomes on Mar 21, 2014 8:30:17 GMT -8
My major complaint is the more you read the DW book, the less you feel the need to have ever read it. It's a hefty tome with very little information. The big books you guys mention are rather dense with info. Reading it now I feel very much the same way, except for the excellent section on GM moves, which is fuckin' awesome! That's like "how to GM 101", a basic starting guide for open-ended adventuring: "Yes, and", the RPG.
|
|
|
Post by malifer on Mar 21, 2014 9:54:51 GMT -8
My major complaint is the more you read the DW book, the less you feel the need to have ever read it. It's a hefty tome with very little information. The big books you guys mention are rather dense with info. Reading it now I feel very much the same way, except for the excellent section on GM moves, which is fuckin' awesome! That's like "how to GM 101", a basic starting guide for open-ended adventuring: "Yes, and", the RPG.But it's kind of like reading a philosophy book and finding you agree with the philosopher on many points, but are never inspired or given new ideas. The more I think about it the less I like to look at GM "moves" as a list. When I did look at the list my brain would think of the most logical "move" I could use at that moment and would go with the narrative. This led me to use "do damage" a lot more often than I would like because it was easy to describe. Now in all my games I use this philosophy. I find I really enjoying degrees of success for players. (don't anyone fucking mention FFG SW) *ahem* So even if I were to run 2nd Ed D&D I would use the trappings of DW. However I don't look at the list or even try to remember the "moves" on a miss if I can't think of anything at the moment I just make a mental note I need to do something in the future for this. Chances are whatever you imagine will fit into one of those move options, but instead of the "never tell the players the name of your move" it's more along the lines of never confine yourself to those moves and "play to see what happens". Now it was in another thread, god knows where, I wrote I do not dislike this game or this book. However it is the first time I have ever recommended buying the PDF vs the book. Mainly because it's not a "fun" read and it also isn't a very good reference source. If you want a reference source the free character playbooks and the Dungeonworld Guide are much more concise and together there about 90 pages, the core book is 400 pages of mostly repetition. It's almost like the behind the scenes documentary on a dvd it's interesting once, but very few would I watch again. That being said I do not at all feel DW was a waste of money because it is an awesome game.
|
|
|
Post by guitarspider on Mar 22, 2014 1:16:33 GMT -8
However I don't look at the list or even try to remember the "moves" on a miss if I can't think of anything at the moment I just make a mental note I need to do something in the future for this. Chances are whatever you imagine will fit into one of those move options, but instead of the "never tell the players the name of your move" it's more along the lines of never confine yourself to those moves and "play to see what happens". You know that that is exactly what the move list is supposed to be, yes? If you already have an idea, do it, if you need an idea, check the list. Page 166 "To choose a move, look at the obvious consequences of the action that triggered it. If you already have an idea, think on it for a second to make sure it fits your agenda and principles and then do it." It doesn't say "look at the list" or "check the list of moves to make sure you only do what this list tells you." It's the same for the GM as for the characters, moves are your way to influence the fiction, but you're in no way bound by them if what you do fits the agendas and principles, which maintain the game's tone. As for "deal damage", the book tells you that deal damage is a hard move and should mostly follow up on a soft move, a move without irreversible consequences, that the players failed to react to. Using "deal damage" as your default option is lazy (I've done it too) and it's not how the game wants you to use it. Every other move might include damage too, so you'll very rarely be in a position where using "deal damage" is a good idea anyway. "Ok, so you stumbled. The Earth Elemental hits you in the face, take d10 damage" (deal damage) "Ok, so you stumbled. The Earth Elemental grabs you and starts to squeeze the live out of you. It crumples your armor like a sheet of paper. You can already feel your bones giving, you know you need to get out of its grip right now if you want to see the sun again. Pieces of armor are cutting into your flesh, so take d6 damage as well. What do you do?" (use up their resources + incidental damage for blood spilled)
|
|
|
Post by greatwyrm on Mar 22, 2014 6:11:25 GMT -8
That's when a missed roll turns into a success, just with a massive, Sir Mix-a-lot approved " but..." I like this line and I cannot lie.
|
|
|
Post by malifer on Mar 22, 2014 10:54:46 GMT -8
However I don't look at the list or even try to remember the "moves" on a miss if I can't think of anything at the moment I just make a mental note I need to do something in the future for this. Chances are whatever you imagine will fit into one of those move options, but instead of the "never tell the players the name of your move" it's more along the lines of never confine yourself to those moves and "play to see what happens". You know that that is exactly what the move list is supposed to be, yes? If you already have an idea, do it, if you need an idea, check the list. Page 166 "To choose a move, look at the obvious consequences of the action that triggered it. If you already have an idea, think on it for a second to make sure it fits your agenda and principles and then do it." It doesn't say "look at the list" or "check the list of moves to make sure you only do what this list tells you." It's the same for the GM as for the characters, moves are your way to influence the fiction, but you're in no way bound by them if what you do fits the agendas and principles, which maintain the game's tone. As for "deal damage", the book tells you that deal damage is a hard move and should mostly follow up on a soft move, a move without irreversible consequences, that the players failed to react to. Using "deal damage" as your default option is lazy (I've done it too) and it's not how the game wants you to use it. Every other move might include damage too, so you'll very rarely be in a position where using "deal damage" is a good idea anyway. "Ok, so you stumbled. The Earth Elemental hits you in the face, take d10 damage" (deal damage) "Ok, so you stumbled. The Earth Elemental grabs you and starts to squeeze the live out of you. It crumples your armor like a sheet of paper. You can already feel your bones giving, you know you need to get out of its grip right now if you want to see the sun again. Pieces of armor are cutting into your flesh, so take d6 damage as well. What do you do?" (use up their resources + incidental damage for blood spilled) Exactly. Ergo the book is useless because it essentially tells you nothing except to do whatever you want.
|
|
|
Post by guitarspider on Mar 22, 2014 12:49:39 GMT -8
Maybe it's useless for you, but plenty of games tell you to do things in non-intuituve ways. Breaking that habit is what that book is about to a large extent. To say it is useless presumes it'll be useless for everybody, which I don't think is true.
|
|
|
Post by malifer on Mar 22, 2014 13:04:04 GMT -8
Maybe it's useless for you, but plenty of games tell you to do things in non-intuituve ways. Breaking that habit is what that book is about to a large extent. To say it is useless presumes it'll be useless for everybody, which I don't think is true. I disagree. Saying it's useless is my opinion. Which worth approximately 2 cents according to an old adage. People listening to my opinion as a decree would be rather cool, but highly unlikely due to my current social standing. I did concede you could read the book once, however I don't see why anyone would read the book twice given the free material I linked is far superior. And useless could be a strong word. You may need a door stop or have a wobbly table.
|
|