willh
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 220
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Post by willh on Apr 1, 2013 11:15:24 GMT -8
Victory Games: James Bond 007 RPG Such a good game, way ahead of its time, and best equipment porn ever.
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Post by mook on Apr 1, 2013 14:13:49 GMT -8
I still have my "Thrilling Locations" and "Q Manual" -- insanely useful for any cinematic super spy game
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Post by stork on Apr 1, 2013 15:25:43 GMT -8
Oh and Stork? Stop. Don't ever do that impression of Charles Nelson Reilly ever again. Ever. Just let it go man. Just. Let. It. Go.
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 2, 2013 3:08:35 GMT -8
Regarding Richard Griffiths - who hasn't used 'Uncle Monty' as an NPC after they've seen 'Withnail & I': Aaron
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 3:11:16 GMT -8
I haven't finished the episode yet, but I just wanted to point out that GURPS wasn't the first game to create the generic system. Chaosium created Basic Role-Playing in 1980 which is the rule system for their many settings, the most famous being Call of Cthulhu. Sorry for being that guy who goes to the internet to point out someone is wrong... I just wanted to throw a little love Chaosium's way.
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 2, 2013 3:11:41 GMT -8
Victory Games: James Bond 007 RPG Such a good game, way ahead of its time, and best equipment porn ever. If you looks around the internets someone has put it up as a free pdf. The complete game including supplements and legally Aaron
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Post by muntjack on Apr 2, 2013 3:52:08 GMT -8
Gotta rush out the door, but I had listened to the front end of the podcast, and all I could think throughout was not whether bennies make players better or worse at roleplaying. All I could think about listening to the discussion is that bennies are a part of a specific flavor of gaming. Throughout the podcast Stork compared Savage Worlds and GURPS as if they are similar games. Yes, they are both dangerous to an extend. However, if you are looking for a very cinematic game with crazy moments and high energy, you might want to consider Savage Worlds for its easy rules and ability to change fate with bennies. Does that make for bad roleplaying? Absolutely not. I have played SW a few times, and all I noticed is that it certainly flavored the game that we played.
If you want a certain feel, play a certain game. Don't throw the mechanic under the bus as being a mechanic that doesn't foster good roleplaying. If it doesn't work for YOUR group, then don't use them. Simple as that.
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SirGuido
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Posts: 2,127
Preferred Game Systems: L5R, Traveller, Fate Accelerated, Masks
Currently Playing: Nothing.
Currently Running: Nothing.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Anything in a Cage.
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Post by SirGuido on Apr 2, 2013 5:19:35 GMT -8
Damn I wish I could "like" a post on this forum. I'll settle for a little karma.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 8:06:05 GMT -8
Re: Generic systems
There's no denying one can add flavor to a generic system. I have a long shelf full of 3E GURPS books attesting to this!
Still, there's also no denying that gameplay is a function of rules. There are basic assumptions baked into each system and these assumptions influence play. At the top of the episode, the discussion of bennies, perhaps unintentionally, supported this point—in that discussion it was accepted as a given that a game of GURPS or a game of Savage Worlds will elicit a distinct style of play, regardless of optional rules modules in use.
I think this may be the point Andreas was hoping to explore: In making frequent use of a generic system, does one give up some variety of play for the sake of familiarity and/or utility?
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Post by Kainguru on Apr 2, 2013 10:38:46 GMT -8
I haven't finished the episode yet, but I just wanted to point out that GURPS wasn't the first game to create the generic system. Chaosium created Basic Role-Playing in 1980 which is the rule system for their many settings, the most famous being Call of Cthulhu. Sorry for being that guy who goes to the internet to point out someone is wrong... I just wanted to throw a little love Chaosium's way. +1 and old Chaosium deserves a little bit of love now and again . . . Aaron
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Post by shadrack on Apr 2, 2013 13:40:35 GMT -8
Stu - in regard to your worry about the GM losing control of the world in a FATE game. If there is something you want in your game, just say it's there. Make it part of the pitch to the players. Even if it's a 'mysterious cult' that the players don't know much about. They (the players) may just fill in some of your lieutenant spots maybe they identify a few of the middlemen?
Just because the players have more narrative impact than in some other games, they don't have as much as the GM does.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:53:56 GMT -8
If there is something you want in your game, just say it's there. Make it part of the pitch to the players. Agreed. Further, I don't think collaborative world building means all cards have to be on the table, if you're the kind of GM who likes a big reveal. Still, I think it's worthwhile to consider letting players in on secrets, exploiting the difference between player knowledge and character knowledge, thereby enabling all involved to consciously insert dramatic irony and/or increase tension as the reveal approaches. That is, I propose it can be as much fun for all involved (albeit a different sort of fun than in a traditional game) for player X to know well in advance of the final showdown with the masked nemesis that said villain is character X's long lost twin brother. I defy the metagaming bugbear sometimes invoked around these parts
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Post by Stu Venable on Apr 2, 2013 15:18:59 GMT -8
Still, I think it's worthwhile to consider letting players in on secrets, exploiting the difference between player knowledge and character knowledge, thereby enabling all involved to consciously insert dramatic irony and/or increase tension as the reveal approaches.
Read more: happyjacks.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=showannouncementsandfeedback&thread=1880&page=2#16532#ixzz2PM33m7QP I think this depends on the age old "why do you play" question. If you're looking for a game with high drama, then yes, I agree. If you're looking for a game with high immersion, then no. Knowing secrets means you can't figure them out. I get that you don't lose all control, but I can see situations where a player contribution to the setting would have to be modified or vetoed if it was going to be inconsistent with some planned surprise. Then the GM runs the risk of tipping his hand. That said, it's my experience that settings with "one big reveal" become uninteresting once that reveal happens -- and for some reason, it's usually anticlimactic. Don't know why...
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Post by shadrack on Apr 3, 2013 6:41:47 GMT -8
I see what you're saying.
Let me add this. While the players' do/can have a lot of input into your setting/city creation they don't need to know everything. They can make organizations, come up with faces and some of the traits of the faces/organizations. But I don't think that even they want to know everything. Based on the scale of the campaign, they should know something about the current troubles the area is undergoing. example: (DRESDEN SPOILERS) "red court power vacuum" as a setting aspect. Now, your players (and likely characters) know this, but it still leaves you (GM) a lot of room to maneuver.
Also, when it comes to faces. Your PCs could makes some up in character creation. You are free to add to that. How awesome is it when there is a really cool reveal and it's one or your contacts! example: Say one of your PCs has some aspects along the lines of. 'Uncle Iroh is my mentor' 'Scarred by my father'
lo and behold, if it doesn't turn out that Uncle Iroh is a member of a international secret society dedicated to stopping the big bad who happens to be your dad! - yes, I do think Avatar: the last airbender would be a great FATE game. And Prince Zuko is by far my favorite character.
I also think that once you get out of city/setting creation, you won't really have issues like this. Most often, I've only seen FATE chips used during play for things that are within arms reach. "does this Kmart have climbing gear?" - "Kmart has been having financial woes..." - (offers FATE chip to GM) "does the REI next door have climbing gear?" - "yes I'm sure the REI next door does have climbing gear."
And also in the, "I know a guy" sort of way. Of course that guy could be Lando and he could have Darth Vader in conference room B already...
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Post by mook on Apr 3, 2013 12:49:22 GMT -8
Finally listened to the first part of this episode -- I was looking forward to some GURPS lovin', and sure enough it's there! Bugger all I wasn't able to enjoy from the chat room.* As mentioned, we've been using bennies/"Story Points" in our GURPS games for many moons, and for this game and for our group it's been totally awesome (afaik - certainly no one has raised any objections). I tweak it now and again, but at the moment the rules are: Because it's a very cinematic game with PCs possessed of paranormal abilities in a mostly-mundane world, the "buffer" these points provide takes some of the stress off of me as GM ("If I do press a little too hard and possibly gork a PC, at least the player has a chance to ameliorate" [yes, I use pretentious words when I talk to myself]), and allows the players to be more (or at least almost as) bad-ass as the crazy shit they're fighting ("Instead of the success I rolled, I change it to a critical success to make sure I really clean his clock" ).
My other monthly game, Fantasy set in the Forgotten Realms, uses them too. On the other hand, while I would use them for a larger-than-life James Bond game, I wouldn't for a more realistic espionage game, any kind of horror game, a game of purely mundane humans, etc.
There is an excellent GURPS PDF available ("Impulse Buys") on the topic as well. It's only a little more than 20 pages, but like most GURPS products it shows off a wide variety of already-worked examples of what points can be used to do, where they can come from, how they can refresh -- it rocks. The system we already had in place when this was released has served us well, but eventually I'm going to winnow through the book and come up with concrete "This is How Points Work in This Game" pages.
None of this is really new territory for GURPS. In particular, Kromm (the GURPS Line Editor) has always been vocal in his recommendation that all "heroic" characters take the Luck advantage at a bare minimum, allowing them to at least get a reroll in case of disaster.
Listening to y'all reminisce about the GrimJack game was also great fun.
Awesome episode so far! Looking forward to finishing on this week's work drives.
* Friday was so annoying. I was chilling in the chat room, enjoying the live 'cast, Vodka and Fresca next to me ... then the damn doorbell rang and I didn't get back to the computer for like 3 hours.
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