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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 5:03:11 GMT -8
I've bought the 2 core books the Fantasy supplement and the Bestiary.
Oh my god.
It's a whole lot of book and a whole lot of system founded on a strong mathematical base.
First up it's time to make a character. I always find it's the best way to learn a system so lets look in.
3 hours later I'm back online and buying the character builder. It's not totally unintuitive but it does assume a working knowledge of the system.
Each time I read some more of the core book I can see glimmers of greatness hidden under the often repeated, and frankly terrifying, "GM's should take care to limit this". When a system requires such in depth knowledge to prevent a player being game breaking it frightens me.
I feel that I would need to know it inside out before I could let my players loose to make a character for themselves. But I would then be in a constant war of attrition shutting down loop holes they have found.
I freely admit I have not read the whole book but is there something I'm missing? Or should I stick to GURPS and Savage worlds as my go to systems of choice when it comes to not setting specific systems?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 8:31:28 GMT -8
you might want to get the Basic Rules book 132 pages of the Hero system boiled down to a not scary/not bullet proof level and it is only 20$
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Post by Stu Venable on Dec 6, 2011 9:17:37 GMT -8
Two things:
1. I suggest people start Hero with the Basic Rulebook. It's better organized to learn the system, and it gives you a limited, but very commonly used, list of powers.
2. At the very least, players should make characters *with* the GM. I wouldn't "let the players loose" on character gen in Hero.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2011 12:18:07 GMT -8
I’ve been playing Hero on and off since the champions days (the white book with the hero guy on the cover). Back then the game was pretty small but still had a more complex creation system than almost anything on the market. Over the years I have watched the game balloon in size. It seems to me that the 1st and 2nd editions where pretty reasonable in size, even though not small. Those versions seemed to have champions as a core and then there were other complete system books put out for other genres like Justice Inc for pulp adventures (loved that one by the way). Starting sometime around the 3rd edition they seemed to start combining the rules into a true unified generic system. This is where the balloon started to expand until we are left with the current state of things, books you can use for house defense or a bunker. I still love the system and will continue to use it. Unfortunately the sight of the full system seems to terrify new gamers. Okay, now I’ve rambled on a bit too much some advice. I agree with Stu’s two points. 1. The basic books are your friend when it comes to teaching the basics of the game. The great tomes are handy to have around in case someone wants to go beyond the stuff in the basic book. This also means that those players that want their own books have a much cheaper option. 2. GM and some input from other players is a good idea during creation. The character generator is pretty good once you understand the system and get your head wrapped around the way the generator likes to implement the rules. The problem is, it will let you do things that it shouldn’t and so an understanding of the rules is a must. I would add to the list. 3. No character gets in the game without review from the GM (This shouldn’t be a problem if you follow 2). No points are spent without the review of the GM. This sounds a little draconian, but the intent should be to maintain game balance and so ensure the fun for the whole group. If players don’t understand this, well….. they are sort of being potato heads. 4. Figure out your power level and enforce it. I have found that when you do this it is a good idea to place the limits on active points. This tends to put harder limits on individual powers. Example. (using 5th) If you limit characters to 30 character points in any one power, cool, that’s a 6d energy blast. The bad thing is that I can turn that 6d into 7½d or 9d with almost no work at all and it just gets worse from there. Active points NEVER go down no matter how many limitations you put on it. 1d6 of energy blast is 5 active points and this can go up, but never down. So 1d6 of energy blast with 1 level of armor piercing and requires activation roll of 11- has an active cost of 7.5 points and a cost of 5 points in character points. Okay, that was longer than I wanted.
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Post by Twilight Struggler on Dec 7, 2011 13:37:34 GMT -8
I'd also add reading about Special Effects (6E1 120-126). GMs and players should have a discussion on "how it works, what it looks like, and any other incidental effects associated with it." A perceived misuse of power because of it's special effect will cost hours of arguing in the game session.
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 11, 2011 8:26:02 GMT -8
As someone who has picked up Hero system in the last year and now owns 10 books in print on the game and more in pdf I just want to add that it is worth every minute of time spent learning to play it, and it is worth every penny spent on the material.
Their stuff is absolutely top notch. The highest quality. My Pathfinder Core Book (don't get me wrong love the Pathfinder) is falling apart. My much used much perused and often reviewed Hero book is doing just fine thank you very much.
I have found that I love this system for EVERYTHING. The only caveat to that being not whether Hero works for (fill in the blank genre) but whether it gives the level of cinematic vs realism that I want for this particular game. eg if I want something that is VERY cinematic I play Savage Worlds, if I want something more realistic I play Hero, if I want something MOST realistic I would pick GURPS (GURPS is on my buy list but I haven't gotten that far yet.)
I am looking forward to getting to start playing in a regular GURPS game in January being run by someone I consider to be a true master of the art.
Just my thoughts, for what little they are worth.
JiB
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 15:51:47 GMT -8
i would have to agree with JIB too. The game is complex but flexible almost to a fault. I do love it and love playing/ running the hero system. It's just one you have to be able and willing to put some work into. if you can and do, well, you will be rewarded.
BTW JIB. nice pig face bascinet.
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Post by jazzisblues on Dec 11, 2011 17:27:24 GMT -8
Thanks Rob, it was a ton of fun to make that helm along with the rest of the harness. I wish I still had that one piece but I sold the whole harness off years ago. I never even got to fight in it once. Ah well such is life. Perhaps I will make a new harness this year just for fun.
JiB
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sean
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Post by sean on Dec 15, 2011 21:48:06 GMT -8
It's been a long time, but . . .
The 4th edition fantasy book for hero had a section on mapping out what powers, limitations, advantages, and what power levels to allow for different flavours of fantasy.
In a few pages they laid out suggestions that would limit the most breaky aspects of the system.
I don't recall these guidelines being in the 5th edition. Were they in the 6th?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 3:55:10 GMT -8
Yeah I think I've made my mind up now.
I had plenty of time over Christmas to have a read through the books and every time I turn to a page to look something up I seem to always find a section describing how it could work and then a series of warnings about how easy it is to break or how you have to change how it works in this situation to stop things becoming unbalanced.
I'm going to chalk this up to experience and stick with GURPS and if I want something more cinematic use Fate or Savage Worlds.
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Post by jazzisblues on Feb 6, 2012 7:57:47 GMT -8
Yeah I think I've made my mind up now. I had plenty of time over Christmas to have a read through the books and every time I turn to a page to look something up I seem to always find a section describing how it could work and then a series of warnings about how easy it is to break or how you have to change how it works in this situation to stop things becoming unbalanced. I'm going to chalk this up to experience and stick with GURPS and if I want something more cinematic use Fate or Savage Worlds. I've never found a game system that wasn't breakable Hero is IMO neither more or less breakable than any other. That said, making characters without gm involvement (at least) is tantamount to craziness. My preferred way of doing it is to get the players to give me a character writeup in plain English and then I'll actually make the character for them. Players who know Hero better will tend to give me more mechanical stuff but that's normal for any game system. When things become unbalanced is when you have characters that are wildly different in terms of points spent or the knowledge with which those points are spent. Hence the don't build or advance characters without gm involvement. I will concede that the Hero character sheet might actually be more cryptic and arcane than even the GURPS one, but to me getting things onto that sheet is easier in Hero than in GURPS. Of course that might just be me being more familiar with Hero than GURPS. Just my 2 krupplenicks worth, your mileage may of course vary. JiB
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2012 6:32:20 GMT -8
I must say, as an echo, that I recently bought the Hero BASIC rulebook, and it's a really cool system. I don't have any of the other books, and I doubt I ever will, since it looks like Character Creation has fallen out of print and Hero Games is hurting . However, I digested the BASIC rules in about three days of reading, wasn't scared off by the "Look out!" emblems, and am happily trotting off to run a game soon. The simplicity of the BASIC rules really helped me get into it. My usual go-to superhero game is Wild Talents, so I think I've got this kernel of experience for you: If your GM alarm bells tell you that a PC's idea is going to hurt the game, then ask them to redesign the character. That, and, make the character. Don't let the player do it. Make sure they're sitting in with you, so they feel like they understand the mechanics, but definitely make everything. Decide on a "maximum damage class" and a "maximum resistant defense" for the game. I think that's the guideline that has helped me in designing introductory hero for my friends.
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Post by jazzisblues on Feb 8, 2012 12:17:02 GMT -8
I must say, as an echo, that I recently bought the Hero BASIC rulebook, and it's a really cool system. I don't have any of the other books, and I doubt I ever will, since it looks like Character Creation has fallen out of print and Hero Games is hurting . However, I digested the BASIC rules in about three days of reading, wasn't scared off by the "Look out!" emblems, and am happily trotting off to run a game soon. The simplicity of the BASIC rules really helped me get into it. My usual go-to superhero game is Wild Talents, so I think I've got this kernel of experience for you: If your GM alarm bells tell you that a PC's idea is going to hurt the game, then ask them to redesign the character. That, and, make the character. Don't let the player do it. Make sure they're sitting in with you, so they feel like they understand the mechanics, but definitely make everything. Decide on a "maximum damage class" and a "maximum resistant defense" for the game. I think that's the guideline that has helped me in designing introductory hero for my friends. It really saddens me that Hero is having problems. It's a wonderful game system and their products are a great value for the money. If you can find a copy of the Character book I would suggest grabbing it, along with the Combat book. Other books from the line are wonderful but those are the ones you really need. JiB
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 14:22:18 GMT -8
I got Vol. II today from a FLGS, and for those of you looking for it Hero Games is selling copies of Vol. I that have damaged covers for $20 + Shipping. I think if my little HERO playtest goes well we'll be on our way to a Fantasy Hero game set in Eberron in no time!
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Post by jazzisblues on Feb 10, 2012 15:32:52 GMT -8
I got Vol. II today from a FLGS, and for those of you looking for it Hero Games is selling copies of Vol. I that have damaged covers for $20 + Shipping. I think if my little HERO playtest goes well we'll be on our way to a Fantasy Hero game set in Eberron in no time! Sweet!!! That would actually get me to play a game in Eberron. JiB
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