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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 10, 2013 8:47:39 GMT -8
Happy Jacks RPG Podcast Season 10 Episode 01 is up. Your hosts: Stu, Stork, Tyler, CADave Take the 2013 RPG Podcast Listener Survey. Show notes! We discuss what makes a good plot hook. Saul writes in with some questions about his Pathfinder game. Jay writes in with a gaming emergency regarding too many plot threads. Tarin chimes in on emotion in games and why we might grieve NPC death more than PC death. Jeff emails about our opinion of a system for a convention game. Grant from Saving the Game podcast writes in with a horror story. Song: Haul Away Joe by the Merry Wives of Windsor.
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SirGuido
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Post by SirGuido on Jun 10, 2013 10:00:25 GMT -8
I am proud of you Stu.
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Post by muntjack on Jun 10, 2013 10:54:11 GMT -8
So Stu, if you do that World of Darkness game online, I'm totally in.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Jun 10, 2013 10:59:37 GMT -8
This was a great episode! The combined brain trust of CADave and Tyler with you two good ol' boys results in some really pertinent, quality advice. The plot hook discussion was very helpful to my Pathfinder game reminded me to give them SOMETHING to do...but NOT too much. (Now closing down some plot wagon trails...until further notice). My wife dropped another gem while we were listening to this episode. When the discussion regarding splitting the party came up and Tyler's solution, "Kill one of 'em" we both did spit takes over breakfast...and then she says "Well that's what George R.R. Martin does...and look how successful that shit is!" So my players beware...sidebar yourself and you may never return from that sidebar... And thanks again for plugging Jackercon! The game slots almost all have games being offered. We just need players . And with the gaming nightmare story I immediately thought of this something awful article: www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/epic-level-insanity.phpWhich also reminds me to find a way to wind our Pathfinder game down before 12th level... *shuffles off to thumb through Dark Heresy book* *RUNS BACK!* ONE MORE THING! The mention of the NWoD book and CADave saying "and that put the fear in me because I'm really enjoying the L5R game..." reminded me of the problem of GM shiny game chasing and knowing "When to hold em, when to fold em..." How does it end ? How many sessions are too many ? How many is not enough ? What is a decent number of sessions for the story arc ? My Pathfinder game is at session 14 over 8 months. I'm hoping for 14 more...but thats with a group of lifelong friends that just enjoy getting together and telling incredibly elaborate stories. But what about your L5R game ? What about Sir Guido's L5R game ? In his game we are having a great time but we also are very happy to have created a pretty damn good play group that would be fun to do some rotating GM games... Now the final problem with your L5R game...you don't just have CADave, Stork, Tyler and Kimi to think about...WE THE LOYAL LISTENERS WANNA KNOW... WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN ??No pressure. Thanks again for the works.
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Post by Stu Venable on Jun 10, 2013 11:52:42 GMT -8
The L5R game is continuing. In fact, I just made a wiki for it: stuvenable.com/inukaiwiki. I'm no ready to run nWoD, and I'm still having a lot of fun with the L5R game. Almost all of my aborted campaigns had either system problem or scheduling because of Faire. The DnD4E game became a problem because of 4E combat length and the size of the group. We tried switching systems twice: HERO and GURPS, and it didn't help too much. That gaming group was just too goddamned big, and I'm glad that game's over. The Savage Worlds Fantasy campaign had more to do with my problems with Savage Worlds than anything else. I've the system, not a fan of it in a long-term game. The GURPS Infinite Worlds game was meant to be a series of one-shot games -- essentially "missions" for the team, with no worry about who could and could not make it to a session. This may start up again. With the Traveller game we hit a shitty stretch of scheduling -- it started at the wrong time of year -- early winter. Hollidays, then CD recording, then a St. Pats show, then pre-Faire, then Faire. By the time all of that was clear, I couldn't remember what I was doing in the game. At least with the L5R game, I can listen to the actual play and remember where I was.
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Post by ericfromnj on Jun 10, 2013 12:25:17 GMT -8
I would be curious what percentage of players want a direction versus ones who are more proactive, because I will admit I don't believe a game can be "too Sandboxy".
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willh
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 220
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Post by willh on Jun 10, 2013 13:19:17 GMT -8
When it comes to direction I want my cake and peanut butter, or chocolate and eat it it too. If I'm proactive and full of ideas i want those to be what is used. But if I have nothing I want the clueX4.
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Post by The Northman on Jun 10, 2013 13:20:21 GMT -8
I've been in several games where paralysis-by-open-world set in. Plot threads still need to be floating in the wind unless everyone has an extremely strong concept of each character's goals. Even then, if those goals don't align, the 'ultimate sandbox,' can wind up being a separate game for each character.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Jun 10, 2013 17:13:11 GMT -8
I would be curious what percentage of players want a direction versus ones who are more proactive, because I will admit I don't believe a game can be "too Sandboxy". I, good sir, call hippie! I said exactly the same thing in the livestream chatroom and I got called out as being a hippie. There's no such thing as "too sandboxy", just like there's no such thing as being "too wet" (in any sense of the word ). I've been in several games where paralysis-by-open-world set in. Plot threads still need to be floating in the wind unless everyone has an extremely strong concept of each character's goals. Even then, if those goals don't align, the 'ultimate sandbox,' can wind up being a separate game for each character. I agree with you. But I'd also argue that games that devolve into individual character storylines due to differing character motivations is not caused by the game being a sandbox. Yes, the open nature of a sandbox does provides a lot more opportunity for individual characters to go off in different directions than a more linear game does. But in my opinion, that has more to do with the characters having differing goals or not caring about each other than the type of game being played. Imagine a disperate group of adventurers. Put them in a dungeon that only consists of a long hallway, with no doors or openings on any side (except the way out at the end), and a giant rolling boulder behind them. They're all going to go the same direction because there's nowhere else to go. It doesn't really matter what their motivations are, beside escaping the boulder obviously, because there's no opportunity for those motivations to affect the situation. Once they get outside though (finishing the adventure, so to speak) they may or may not stay together. But put those same adventurers into a labyrinth with multiple exits, and they might scatter right at the get go. Each of them goes a different direction, searching for a way out on their own. That wasn't caused by the fact the labyrinth had multiple exits, rather it was caused by the characters having nothing in common. The labyrinth merely allowed it to happen. If, however, you put a group of friends, colleagues, or people with the same goal into that labyrinth, they'll most likely work together. They might go off alone at times, but they'll probably come back to the group after a bit. Plus, they'll probably stay together once they get out of the labyrinth, too. Yes, that's a simplified example, but it illustrates my point. You can't blame sandbox games for groups breaking up into individual storylines. Blame the characters and their lack of something unifying them. This is why you shouldn't design characters in a vacuum, but should insist that all the character have some reason to work together. By the way, I don't think that I offended or anger anyone with my hippie-ish comments during the livestream chat. I thought the calls to "simmer down" were an attempt at humor. If I did offend someone, I apologize.
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jfever
Journeyman Douchebag
FEVAH!!!!
Posts: 218
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Post by jfever on Jun 10, 2013 19:03:24 GMT -8
I realized that I wrote in as Jay, simply because I'm used to just being called Jay during our L5R game. . ..so yeah. It was JFever who wrote in the emergency.
GOOD NEWS!!! I heeded your advice to focus in, and got the best results! Somehow, the players were able to use that focus on one plot point, and magically extend it to resolve/advance other plot points! It was astounding!
I also had the same problem where it seemed that all the players had these separate goals. When I focused in on one plot point, all the players seemed to care about the same shit at the same time. They are all on the same page!
Stork dropped a knowledge bomb that saved my game. Good on ya.
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maxinstuff
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HJRP1001
Jun 10, 2013 21:47:59 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by maxinstuff on Jun 10, 2013 21:47:59 GMT -8
I would be curious what percentage of players want a direction versus ones who are more proactive, because I will admit I don't believe a game can be "too Sandboxy". For me the key is to make sure the world goes on with or without the players. It isn't world of warcraft where the quest sits there till you decide to click the exclamation mark. When the PC's follow a plot thread, I make sure their absense in other threads has an effect (not necessarily bad, but their absense is felt, and perhaps noted by certain NPC's if appropriate) and the antagonist/s are always furthering their ends in some way. This might sound like it would make 'decision paralysis' worse but in practice it actually has a very positive effect - because there is always something going on, and the world lives and breathes with or without them. This allows the players to take on a more reactive role in the story when they are out of ideas.
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Post by The Northman on Jun 11, 2013 5:24:59 GMT -8
I would be curious what percentage of players want a direction versus ones who are more proactive, because I will admit I don't believe a game can be "too Sandboxy". For me the key is to make sure the world goes on with or without the players. It isn't world of warcraft where the quest sits there till you decide to click the exclamation mark. When the PC's follow a plot thread, I make sure their absense in other threads has an effect (not necessarily bad, but their absense is felt, and perhaps noted by certain NPC's if appropriate) and the antagonist/s are always furthering their ends in some way. This might sound like it would make 'decision paralysis' worse but in practice it actually has a very positive effect - because there is always something going on, and the world lives and breathes with or without them. This allows the players to take on a more reactive role in the story when they are out of ideas. I think a good example of that is the most recent pathfinder game we wrecked played in. My character and another got tied up in an underworld plot arc that saw us eliminate the local boss in the poorest part of town, take over our own brothel, and then resume the main arc. In the mean time 3 cities had been sacked that we were supposed to have saved/prevented had our group been present to fight the goblin army.
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Post by Houndin on Jun 11, 2013 6:27:18 GMT -8
Not to pick at a nit since I haven't even listened yet... but isn't the episode HJRP1001 not HPAP1001? At a glance I got very confused thinking I had missed a bunch of AP.
<edit> Nevermind, seems to be fixed now, move along </edit>
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jun 12, 2013 7:16:24 GMT -8
I would be curious what percentage of players want a direction versus ones who are more proactive, because I will admit I don't believe a game can be "too Sandboxy". I think it can be "too sandboxy" for a given group of players--or for a given GM. If the GM's not that great at improvising on the fly (and some GMs aren't, and that's okay), the players might find it more fun to go to places they know have been prepped. It doesn't mean the entire storyline is on a railroad, just that the GM can react better to unexpected player actions in a setting that s/he knows well.
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Post by shadrack on Jun 12, 2013 10:19:47 GMT -8
I think the system for the con Santa Claus game sounds awesome. I do wonder how different the iterations of Santa are, and I agree that Wild Talents should be good. I do think Savage Worlds would work, if you want more differentiation add in some of the mechanical trappings from the Super Powers Companion (or Fantasy Companion) in addition to the more 'flavor' oriented ones. Possible santa claus powers shoots ice bolts covers self in ice armor makes swords of ice to hack'n'slash (or ice claws... Santa claws, that is!) teleportation (how else does he get in the house) that's all I have for now, but notice how only one of them gets the 'bolt' power. FYI re FATE: Fate core and Fate Accelerated are available pay what you want from either the evil hat website or from drivethrurpg.com or rpgnow.com. What you want includes $0
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