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Post by kaitoujuliet on Mar 25, 2014 13:48:02 GMT -8
I've volunteered to run a game for a friend's group in a couple of months. This group plays D&D 3.5 only, a system with which I have very little experience; the closest related system I have run is Star Wars Saga Edition. I plan on running a published adventure (have selected Kenzer & Co's "The Root of All Evil"), so at least I won't have to worry about building my own encounters and such.
I feel reasonably confident of myself in the parts of DMing that carry over from system to system, but I'd appreciate the benefit of other people's experience/suggestions for running 3.5.
1. Which parts of the three core books are most important for me to read in advance? I don't think I'll have time to read all three books cover to cover, and some of the stuff is really for players anyway. I just want to be sure I hit the most important stuff.
2. I suspect one of the players may have a "test the DM and see what he can get away with" streak. What should I be on the alert for--mechanically, in particular?
3. Any further tips or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by HourEleven on Mar 25, 2014 16:20:15 GMT -8
Are you running actual 3.5 or Pathfinder? If it's not Pathfinder, why? Some people might disagree with me, but after GMing both, I can safely say that Pathfinder fixes a lot of the stuff that is borked in 3.5.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on Mar 25, 2014 22:04:58 GMT -8
Ah "Root of All Evil!" I love that one with its picture book of dungeons and the villainess looks like the mighty morphin power rangers villainess. Great plot and creative scenes. Kenzer makes quality modules. Is this group we'll versed in 3.5 ? Because that might be a law schools worth of rules lawyers :-(...which isn't much fun for someone new to the system.
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Mar 26, 2014 8:10:20 GMT -8
HourEleven: System is non-negotiable in this case. The group collectively has a lot of money invested in D&D 3.5 books and doesn't want to buy a new system.
D.T. Pints: Glad to know that I picked a good module! Have you run it/played it? Any module-specific tips on running it? And yes, the group is well-versed in 3.5. They've been playing it since it came out, although they haven't played much over the last couple of years largely due to scheduling problems and lack of people willing to GM. Which is one reason I offered to run the game for them.
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Post by The Northman on Mar 28, 2014 19:22:36 GMT -8
It's all available for free online...you could always convince them. I only press the point because you, as the GM, have the most interest in nullifying the shenanigans that 3.5 produced before it was cleaned up; reference the 'Test the GM,' douche.
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Post by squeatus on Mar 30, 2014 18:48:36 GMT -8
Tell them you're running 3.5 and then just use the pathfinder reference docs instead. It's compatible anyway. I convinced a group of die-hard 3.5'ers to switch after just bringing the book with, telling them to humor me, and letting them do nothing but read the core class description they were most interested in. Almost everyone (except the Druid) should appreciate the changes. Pathfinder SRD and check races, classes, using skills, feats, combat, magic. The rest you can pick up as you go. (Same goes with the regular 3.5 SRD)
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Post by HourEleven on Mar 30, 2014 20:44:08 GMT -8
Unless the entire group uses spiked chains... Spiked Chain smurfs hate Pathfinder. But everybody else loves the fact that taking a single class to 20 is (typically) better than controlled single class dips, etc.
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Post by Arcona on Apr 3, 2014 5:33:52 GMT -8
Wizard, Cleric and Druid also dont need dips in 3.5
In general Pathfinder failed in what it set out to do... balance things out.
Wizard and Cleric are still the powerhouses that they were before and can still be a one man party on higher levels. Sure they did beef up the other classes making them more relevant (a bit) but not to a significant degree.
@kaitojuliet
1. PHB is the most important book to read and go through. Monster Manual you can have a look through at any time and DMG is more about creating the world and handling situations but an experienced DM doesnt really need it. Except for magic items so you could briefly browse on that.
PHB though has all the classes, skills and feats your players will use... and more importantly the spells.
In 3.5 after a certain level Druids, Clerics and Wizards dominate the game. But like seriously... so knowing what their toys are makes a difference. Sure a barbarian/fighter/rogue can be telling you how he did 90 points of damage that one time when he critted but in the end, on higher levels those numbers dont matter...
2. Again its not so much what you should be aware of but you should expect that using only the 3 core books the above 3 classes shine even more. Through the various supplements the other classes get some dips, some prestige classes and some feats/abilities that make them better... a wizard/cleric/druid doesnt need any of that. He is at his peak as a pure caster without needing anything else.
The point is that these classes can do what the others can do via spells and usually they can do it better. So on early levels a Summon Monster will be better than the level equivalent fighter and it will also be recastable for example.
So be weary of casters but otherwise dont feel that the game is going wrong because the PCs get to demolish some foes... if you see it is too easy for them simply bump the numbers. Most published materials are created for 'basic parties' but optimised parties require more of a challenge so give it to them.
In general I find that using multiple enemies even if they are not so strong instead of 1-2 power houses works best against optimised parties cause while high damage/save or suck spells and this kind of thing make your BBEG go away so quickly it feels as if you were cheated, having a dozen bodyguards, a mini-BBEG AND the BBEG might drag the battle out but it will make it also more challenging.
Remember to buff your NPCs with what they have. Unless your PCs are playing some kind of covert super stealthy unit, make sure enemy casters are ready and waiting or even better take to the offensive unexpectedly. Dont let the PCs rebuff and heal right after they crashed inside the castle door making their presence know two towns over!
3. Talk with the group before hand and ask them what they enjoy when playing. Its hard to touch on this as the newcomer in the group but it is super important. If they enjoy tactical challenges and winning against insurmountable odds then give them that so they are happy and content and put effort in your game...
Change the published adventure to suit your and their needs whether it is making it tougher or even adding side stories that bring more RP elements if thats what you think will make them hooked.
Avoid being too nice. A few early player character deaths IF DONE FAIRLY should show them you are not a pushover that will save their precious characters but rather that you play by letting the dice fall where they may. Reward intelligence and punish sloppiness as the real bad guys of the scenario would do!
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Post by ericfromnj on Apr 28, 2014 16:53:28 GMT -8
If the initial few encounters are easy look at the hit dice of enemies and max out the hit points. It will allow for enemies to stick around an extra round or two and use up your party resources a bit more escalating the tension if they can't immediately rest.
Do not confuse things by trying to run or sneak in Pathfinder. If you don't mind running 3.5 by all means I understand not wanting to buy new books like your players do.
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Post by Malex on May 6, 2014 15:32:43 GMT -8
Run. Run while you can. To Dungeon World.
In case you cannot follow the above advice, tell the players that they are only permitted to use the materials in the Players Handbook 1 & 2 and that you have the final say on what is and is not permitted in your game. This will cut down on a lot of headaches that you should be spared from as a first time D&D GM. Otherwise, they shall be pulling out rules that are from an OGL book thrice removed cousin and when you ask to see the rule in the book it will have mysteriously vanished or be completely different from what the player said.
*Deep Breathes* *Rubs Temples* *Wipes Away Tears of Terrible Memories*
As for what's important in the 3 core books. The DMG is great for traps and poison rules, plus treasure generators are nice. The PHB is what you need to read the most in, but stick primarily to the Combat and Skills chapter; read the Magic chapter if you have time. The M&M is not necessary for you to read, just flip through it and figure that whatever the party's level is plus 1 per player in Creature Ratings is up for you to throw at them and provide some challenge. I typically figure out what the highest CR is and pick something that has lots of minions (ie. an Ogre Mage and a band of 30 Hobgoblins).
Good Luck!
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Post by ericfromnj on May 6, 2014 18:01:21 GMT -8
For the love of whatever deities may exist if they only play 3.5 don't go near Dungeon World...
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Post by kaitoujuliet on May 7, 2014 12:23:34 GMT -8
My weekly group plays *.World pretty regularly, so I know where to go if I want a fix. But I'm in a crunchy, simulationist mood at the moment, so I'm quite enjoying reading the 3.5 books.
A few questions that have come up while reading the module:
1. How does searching work, especially if the group doesn't take the maximum amount of time to search? For example, there's a messed-up room in the module with quite a decent amount of treasure scattered amongst the rubble, but the text says it will take at least an hour of searching to find everything. What if the party spends fifteen minutes searching? Is what they find just up to the DM's discretion, or is there a formula somewhere for what they turn up? If there is, where can I find it?
2. How does entanglement work? Late in the module, there's a wardrobe full of spiders with this text:
What happens if the player doesn't make the check? Is the PC just unable to move/use two-handed weapons, or are there more consequences than that? If there are, where are they written up?
3. I'm fuzzy on when and how to award XP. I'm running a first-level adventure, and the module seems to assume that I will wait until the conclusion of the adventure to hand out experience and have the group level up. Is that typical?
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Post by Arcona on May 8, 2014 2:01:44 GMT -8
Hello,
1. DM fiat. Describe the room, ask them where they search and give them what they find there. You could ask them for a roll and if they roll very high (i.e. lucky) they can find some of the more expensive stuff first. In general though, most experienced DnD parties when not in a hurry will always take 20 (i.e. spend max time) to search a room if there is indication/hint of treasure/traps/secret doors etc..
2. Here you go from the SRD:
Entangled:
The character is ensnared. Being entangled impedes movement, but does not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell.
Feel free to add conditions based on the specifics... for example entangled AND in a narrow space could make it even harder to break free or give additional minuses.
3. Whenever you want really...
Typical cases are after each encounter, after a series of encounters, at the end of the session or at campaign/story arc end.
In general for low levels I find it is ok even if players level up mid-game... cause going from level 1 to 2 or from 3 to 4 you get very few things so its not as if you need to think long and hard... just roll your hit points, add a spell/update your Base attack Bonus and saves and add a few skillpoints.
Its common to allow level up after a rest period so you can award experience at the end of a tough day of fighting for example... the next day they wake up having reflected what happened and being just a tad bit better for it.
Personally, I no longer award XPs unless if that is how the players want it for some reason. At some point when I feel its needed or deserved I just tell them 'you level'. Generally I also have every player level at the same time... it keeps things fair and less competitive but also saves on actual game time since everyone takes a few minutes to update the sheet and then we move on.
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D.T. Pints
Instigator
JACKERCON 2018: WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY June 22-July 1st
Posts: 2,857
Currently Playing: D&D 5e, Pathfinder, DUNGEONWORLD, Star Wars Edge of the Empire
Currently Running: DUNGEONWORLD, PATHFINDER
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Post by D.T. Pints on May 8, 2014 20:39:04 GMT -8
Yeah the accounting aspect of leveling and XP feels very unnecessary. As GMs we are already keeping track of so much shit why complicate it with needless minutiae.
Regarding Root of All Evil...my players took the sea journey and played it for several sessions longer than the writers might gave intended but they were having fun so we extended that part. I loved the osr White Plume Mtn, Tomb of Horrors style picture book.
Good choice for a first go at 3.5/d20
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Post by jazzisblues on May 11, 2014 6:47:49 GMT -8
Yeah the accounting aspect of leveling and XP feels very unnecessary. As GMs we are already keeping track of so much shit why complicate it with needless minutiae. Regarding Root of All Evil...my players took the sea journey and played it for several sessions longer than the writers might gave intended but they were having fun so we extended that part. I loved the osr White Plume Mtn, Tomb of Horrors style picture book. Good choice for a first go at 3.5/d20 Because I despise book keeping and minutiae I set a number of game sessions, usually 4, and have them level up after that many game sessions. Cheers, JiB
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