sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on Feb 23, 2015 17:46:46 GMT -8
One of my favourite things in gaming is puzzle solving. Excising that part of the game would be distasteful to me.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on Feb 23, 2015 22:15:59 GMT -8
Hi Matt, maybe I should be reading your article rather than typing this. But I just wanted to say I agree that sometimes is kidding themselves when they think their story is a surpise. I remember a great game years ago, when the GM gave us pre-gens with "flamethrower" skill and told us we were all in the Antarctic. We knew straight away what we were playing (even though I for one haddn't even seen the film) and we had a ball.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Feb 24, 2015 1:18:43 GMT -8
Sounds (to me - and I state the obvious) like a board game that could be role-played with a soundboard, by a group of one even. You have to place your intelligence against that of your players, and for me that's not what RPG's are about. That interface is exactly what excites me about RPGs, and contributes to the unique but consistent game rules at the table. It also happens in the best conversations where sender and receiver engage and interchange in intellectual congress with one another to negotiate a mutual understanding, shifting positions frequently during the interplay. If it sounds like aural sex, it is as good as to me. [And, off-topic, this open aural communion is what I was shooting for when I tried using RPGs to make friends from strangers.] You sound ( to me - to state the obvious and get a ruler on my knuckles administered systematically by my professor of English composition) insecure. to be locked into a wargame, adversarial-functional-role, referee ideology that saps your group's investment in a GM. You even possessively refer to your players rather than being one of the players. Your fix reveals your insecurity by revealing what you seek to correct by laying out the whole game, revealing the man behind the curtain not to be a douchebag, and proceed like just another member of a board game. The style of game you're advocating, when I think about it, is a perfect example of circular thinking: on the one hand the players meta-game their knowledge until the dice say otherwise because, on the other hand, players would be meta-gaming. The benefit that sells your style of game ( as I see it ) is that players do not need any interplayer trust to play... at which point I free associate RPGs to competitive strategy games. At this point, your example being the extreme end, System Matters. For what it's worth, you're hardly alone.
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 27, 2015 4:44:01 GMT -8
I went back and re-read the original blog in question. Basically I just cannot agree with many of the bloggers baseline assumptions, and they are just assumptions, which inform his chosen approach to play: 'Players Hate Being Duped' - um, no not in my experience of both play and GMing. I like the unexpected in play, I like 'matching wits' with the world to see what happens. As a GM I prep week by week, based on what the PC's do having consequences in their world . . . if by 'being duped' the OP means actions having 'unintended consequences' then I'm afraid the expectations at the OP's table are different from the expectations of tables I have sat at. 'Players Love to Participate' - cannot fault this issue, it's a well worn path to discussion and resolution. I believe the 'honest' gaming route is a rather clumsy fix; it could work, but that doesn't mean it's the best solution (or the only solution for that matter). 'Players Have Great Ideas' - yep, and that's precisely why I would prefer to 'keep it secret': as Stu Venable and others have repeatedly mentioned before 'if they players have a better idea in play than you had prepped - cheat, steal that motherfucking idea and make it so'. The advantage is that the theft is 'seamless'. Now I be may wrong but I did get the impression in the blog that the OP dislikes having to abandon his beloved prep. My advice is simpler, don't fall in love with your prep, be prepared to burn it at a moments notice if circumstances demand . . . ie: file it aside for use on another day or in another game, good ideas don't die sometimes they just have to wait for their moment to come. I once had to scrap an entire campaign arc and world because the PC's screwed up a major plot point, what happened next was literally seat of the pants improv (or as Stu Venable would say 'it was time for a toilet break') 'GM's Plots are either Too Obvious or Too Complicated' - that's an incredibly broad and sweeping statement. To that I would respond - don't polarize the extremes because, more often than not, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. In a world of numerous play styles, numerous players, numerous GM's etc to make such a claim is either very brave or very foolish . . . again a possibly flawed assumption. Assumptions are dangerous things and lead to very vocal criticism of what might, in ones assumptions, appear to be a good idea. For example: I hate asparagus with a passion, were I to open a restaurant it would be foolish of me to assume everyone hates asparagus and never offer it on the menu, ever - I have no doubt that many customers would be critical of my menu especially during asparagus season. 'Honest Gaming', to me, reads more like Tabletop Theater - here's the script, have a read thru, make some changes then play your parts . . . Aaron
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oldnemrod
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 92
Preferred Game Systems: WOD (old and new), 4E DnD, Shadowrun, 5E DND,
Currently Playing: Star Wars Saga Edition( I'M A MANDALORIAN!)
Currently Running: 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen
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Post by oldnemrod on Mar 2, 2015 12:01:22 GMT -8
I'm at work and I read quickly so forgive me if there are any details I misinterpret. It almost sounds like the games are set up like tvs and movies where you get a cutaway to what the bad guy is up to and maybe some insight to motivations.
I've always wanted to run a game that lets the players peek behind the curtain, but I always fret over them metagaming that knowledge. I'm still not quite there but I applaud the Blogger for trying a new and interesting way to run for his players.
I guess my only real contention is the statement that "Players don't like being duped." I think you just need to rephrase to "Players don't like being duped.. by the GM, but they are totally into the Characters being duped by the NPCs." Just so as long as the trickery is still logical within the physics of the game world.
Seems fine as long as the whole group is on board and their expectations are realistic for such a game.
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