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Post by Legion TJ on Feb 21, 2015 5:17:25 GMT -8
How do you make Big Monsters into an encounter that the PC will never forget. For instance let say a dragon. I feel if you don't run them right it really be a let down with treasure. I want mine to be something awesome. I what the player to have to pull out every bit of themselves and there character to win.
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Post by Munchkin Chisler on Feb 21, 2015 7:35:42 GMT -8
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 22, 2015 18:35:08 GMT -8
How do you make Big Monsters into an encounter that the PC will never forget. For instance let say a dragon. I feel if you don't run them right it really be a let down with treasure. I want mine to be something awesome. I what the player to have to pull out every bit of themselves and there character to win. You need to get the players invested in the story. Going off to fight the big bad dragon simply because that's the adventure is pretty boring. Why are the characters fighting the Big Monster? What's going to happen if the Big Monster escapes or defeats the PCs? Having compelling answers to those questions is going to help make Big Monster encounters more exciting and more meaningful.
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Post by Munchkin Chisler on Feb 22, 2015 23:48:19 GMT -8
It is going to come down to what your players want - and it sounds they want to win. There are going to be posters here telling you what you need/should do that won't pause to consider your players because they're excited about their own systems of play, and how that excites their players. But you have your own system at the table that matters and your own players. RPGs offer the mechanical tools for plenty of deviation from any one type of experience. I trust you know your players, and what you want as a player yourself. I what the player to have to pull out every bit of themselves and there character to win. So do not hold back on the Big Monster. Go through the monsters in your book and find one that is one-step above the players and learn it cold. Min-max it with in-game conditions favourable to it. Give it a brain and have it pick the battleground and the optimal time for battle. Run the adventure like the Battle of Agincourt: funnel the players towards the combat; mire them in muddy soil; pepper them with arrows; and have the Big Monster do the unexpected. Grind them down with smaller encounters leading up to the Big Monster and do not give them the opportunity to heal or power up afterward. Nowhere does it say a magic user needs only to sleep 8 hours to recoup Magic Missle. That shit takes a full 24 hours and 8 hours of physical & mental rest. Do not give it to the players. Keep them moving. Keep them awake. That way you will have the answer to what you want: "the player to have to pull out every bit of themselves and there character to win."
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D.T. Pints
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Post by D.T. Pints on Feb 23, 2015 8:16:39 GMT -8
Wow! What a wonderful example of TWO diametrically opposed viewpoints. Well done internet! Unless you're straw manning again HyveMynd... .
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Post by Stu Venable on Feb 23, 2015 9:04:24 GMT -8
I believe that would be a straw-puppet.
Munchkin Chisler's post reads almost verbatim like my notes for the next episode (I like this topic, so we're covering it).
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Post by archmagezemoc on Feb 23, 2015 9:50:13 GMT -8
I've got a big ol' post to drop in here in abit, I just woke up. I have many thoughts on this, as I am a huge fan of the megamonster.
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tomes
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Post by tomes on Feb 23, 2015 10:15:19 GMT -8
Another thing to keep in mind: a battle with the big monster doesn't have to mean a battle to the death (on the monster's end). Most really smart, old, powerful monsters haven't made it this far by just getting lucky. They should know when they're outmatched, and have probably set up some escape routes as well.
So, imagine you've taken Munchkin Chisler's advice, first off (cause it's spot on and I can't really add to that). But then again the PCs are beating this thing down (assuming a red dragon). The dragon shouldn't wait until it's down to "low hit points" before trying to run or take evasive action. Anyone to actually damage an adult red dragon will already put that guy on high alert... anyone who got past the minions and initial obstacles would've done the same.
In theory, the big bad should have some traps or otherwise to prevent the PCs from hurting him as he flees, such as an escape tunnel with a convenient set of rocks to drop, to block them while he exits. Now, it could be the PCs kill the bastard. Or could be they beat him back and make him leave behind his treasure, in which case he'll be pretty pissed (like Smaug-and-Lake-Town pissed). Which of course mean that he may go out and leave behind all sorts of other issues behind. Are the PCs seen as heroes now? Or as the bastards that have caused the next series of dominoes that fall on the local populace.
Does the big bad have friends (or, to use modern parlance, frenemies?) that he'll try to goad into helping him remove the PCs? Just other things to play with... Or will the "escape" of the beast really be a trick into getting the PCs to think they've won, when he's really circled about to give them a final blast (maybe he really can't leave all that treasure behind?)
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 23, 2015 15:08:30 GMT -8
I believe that would be a straw-puppet. Munchkin Chisler's post reads almost verbatim like my notes for the next episode (I like this topic, so we're covering it). Gasp! So perhaps it's Stu Venable who's the straw-puppet.
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Post by Stu Venable on Feb 24, 2015 9:14:20 GMT -8
I am not. Trolling my own forum would not be sporting.
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 24, 2015 11:26:43 GMT -8
I am not. Trolling my own forum would not be sporting. Trolling your own forum would be the most 'ironic' (vis-a-vis hipster) thing one could do in this digital age. An act of self referential nihilist angst . . . ie: an absurdist ouroboros, like a human centipede Aaron
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Post by oldnemrod on Feb 24, 2015 16:35:31 GMT -8
An encounter can be memorable. Lucky crits, odd one liners, or simply creative solutions to near impossible odds make an encounter just as memorable as whatever gimmick you use to present your BBEG.
Anything can happen in that one encounter that will make or break your presentation. It is my belief and practice that a legendary encounter is dependent on the emotional investment the characters have going into it. Give me the basic stat blocks of any creature in the MM. No min/maxing or tricky abilities needed. How that bad guys gets in and eats at the characters experience in the game is what will drive that climactic battle.
Sticking a sword into Right Hand of the Prince because he's evil and conspiring is "meh" at best. But how much were you rooting for Inigo Montoya when he and the Six Fingered Man met for the first time.
Give the players strong enough reasons to want to be in that showdown and they'll make the memorable parts on their own.
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Post by CreativeCowboy on Feb 25, 2015 2:09:26 GMT -8
Anything can happen in that one encounter that will make or break your presentation. Yes, but the GM cannot prepare the "anything can happen" scenario. That is at once the beauty and the rub of tabletop RPGs. It is my belief and practice that a legendary encounter is dependent on the emotional investment the characters have going into it. JUXTAPOSE But how much were you rooting for Inigo Montoya when he and the Six Fingered Man met for the first time. You're appealing to player engrossment in the Inigo Montoya example (where audience members puts themself into the character on the screen) not immersion, as you thought, when at first referencing character's emotional investment. You could may as well be talking about character alignment for "emotional investment the characters have."
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Post by HourEleven on Feb 25, 2015 8:58:36 GMT -8
I always found that making it clear this fight won't be won by standing around the big monster and trading attack rolls until one side wins. Find ways to make it story-impossible to "punch until death" the monster and the players will have to start thinking. They will be the underdogs and have to use ingenuity and it will force a set piece battle, one where the environment and details will matter. And when they ask if there is an X laying around because they have awesome plan B, heck yeah there is. Let that plan roll out if it has any sense, and they will have defeated the unstoppable and killed the unkillable - without making the enemy "Roger the Immortal (unless you stab him 52 times in the face with a dagger in a 4 hour battle of attrition) Necromancer." Because hit points and damage shouldn't make the big bad thing big and bad, story and lore should.
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HyveMynd
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Post by HyveMynd on Feb 26, 2015 1:56:26 GMT -8
This article seems like it'd have smoe good ideas. It's for [redacted], but you could apply it to anything with some elbow grease.
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