|
Post by ayslyn on Sept 3, 2015 18:22:57 GMT -8
Just for clarity... Here's the announcement from OBS:
So, it appears they're saying that they will only take things down for review if they identify a serious concern... So, it MIGHT not be totally abuse-able.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 21:15:55 GMT -8
Is this tournament rapist on rapist? The story of a seedy prison warden pitting the worst of the worst against each other in an arena for a series of matches that will decide the fate of cell block 6?! Probably not. I don't care enough to look for myself either. >.>
|
|
sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
|
Post by sbloyd on Sept 4, 2015 6:09:45 GMT -8
@stevensw - as I understand it, yes, that's pretty much what it is.
|
|
maxinstuff
Supporter
Posts: 1,939
Preferred Game Systems: DCC RPG, Shadowrun 5e, Savage Worlds, GURPS 4e, HERO 6e, Mongoose Traveller
Favorite Species of Monkey: Proboscis
|
Post by maxinstuff on Sept 4, 2015 14:52:55 GMT -8
I wish they'd put up a "report" function for shitty products. It sounds funny but this is the root of the issue. It has been spoken about on the show before how Drivethru can at times be a steaming pile of 99 cent excrement. They are trying to offer the most open platform possible, without curating it whatsoever. The new policy is a step in the right direction, but anyone who has ever tried simply browsing the store for new stuff will tell you it's fairly pointless due to the avalanche of shit than falls on you when you try. It's like opening your great aunt's closet without permission. A bunch of stuff is gonna fall on you, and at least one of those things is gonna be a dildo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 21:22:17 GMT -8
There is an inherent conflict of interests in trying to carry everything, yet only wanting to carry products that are nonoffensive. My personal take is that if you don't like it, don't buy it. You don't go into a sex shop and then get angry that they carry butt plugs. It may not be for you, so simply do not purchase.
|
|
starwar
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 52
|
Post by starwar on Sept 5, 2015 0:22:53 GMT -8
Butt plugs and dildos, I thought we were talking about tabletop games not bedroom games. My mistake, I was wondering why this thread was so far off from what I thought original topic was.
My thoughts on sex-toys then.
Dildos- with steamy undertones.
Butt plugs- needs improvements to analogy.
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Sept 6, 2015 19:33:30 GMT -8
Late to the party here, though honestly I'm glad I missed some of it. I'm biracial, but people probably wouldn't know unless I told them (which I guess I just did), and am close enough to being a cis hetero white guy that, for all intents and purposes, I am. As part of the "default demographic", I do feel a little twinge of disappointment, jealousy, and even anger when I see something for people other than what I am. It does feel like I am being excluded, which stinks.
But I get over it. Not everything is intended for me, nor should it be. Pretty much everything is still marketed for us cis hetero white guys, unless it specifically says otherwise. There is so much that is for us, complaining when something is geared for other people seems incredibly selfish. Having a healthy, inclusive hobby means giving everyone an equal share and equal representation. As things are still predominantly made for us cis hetero white guys, people need to specifically call on other people to participate, often in their own spaces, so that the focus is on them and not us.
(I know I'm using a lot of "us" and "them" and "other" here, and it's not to be othering. I'm just not sure how to say "people like me" and "people unlike me" in a better way.)
As for the whole DTRPG thing, I completely agree that people should be able to create, buy, and consume whatever they want. But DTRPG is like Walmart or Target. It is trying to attract the widest customer base possible. Those store are probably not going to carry dildos and buttplugs, because some people aren't going to want to see that. If you want sex toys, you go to a dedicated sex shop, not Target.
|
|
starwar
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 52
|
Post by starwar on Sept 6, 2015 21:35:21 GMT -8
Late to the party here, though honestly I'm glad I missed some of it. I'm biracial, but people probably wouldn't know unless I told them (which I guess I just did), and am close enough to being a cis hetero white guy that, for all intents and purposes, I am. As part of the "default demographic", I do feel a little twinge of disappointment, jealousy, and even anger when I see something for people other than what I am. It does feel like I am being excluded, which stinks. But I get over it. Not everything is intended for me, nor should it be. Pretty much everything is still marketed for us cis hetero white guys, unless it specifically says otherwise. There is so much that is for us, complaining when something is geared for other people seems incredibly selfish. Having a healthy, inclusive hobby means giving everyone an equal share and equal representation. As things are still predominantly made for us cis hetero white guys, people need to specifically call on other people to participate, often in their own spaces, so that the focus is on them and not us. (I know I'm using a lot of "us" and "them" and "other" here, and it's not to be othering. I'm just not sure how to say "people like me" and "people unlike me" in a better way.) As for the whole DTRPG thing, I completely agree that people should be able to create, buy, and consume whatever they want. But DTRPG is like Walmart or Target. It is trying to attract the widest customer base possible. Those store are probably not going to carry dildos and buttplugs, because some people aren't going to want to see that. If you want sex toys, you go to a dedicated sex shop, not Target. I do like your Target analogy better than the sex shop one. And DTRPG's announcement supports your analogy more accurately. Both analogies highlight the report button of products that costumers may use, rather than the aspect of developers disagreeing with being displayed along with products that they do not want to be associated with. Both the Target analogy and the sex shop one are valid opinions (though one was more on target), when it comes to customer's opinions. DTRPG's announcement supports that they would prefer being seen more as a "Target" than a "sex shop". That preference not only affects the customer base but the products as well. If a sex shop sells a light weight one handed suction device it is a sex toy, if Target sells it it's a vacuum cleaner. Where would you rather have your products displayed if you were Hoover?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 21:42:21 GMT -8
Except that DTRPG is not a gaming store, it is a RPG store. So they are a specialist shop. DTRPG can't afford to be like a FLGS, because they don't have the alternate revenue of comics, miniature war gaming, board games, etc. what the site is supposed to be is a one stop shopping place for RPGs online. The second they stop having the titles a customer is looking for is the moment they go to another website that does.
Put aside the issues relating to sex acts. Take women in gaming. Warhammer fantasy role play has an entire area of their setting where women are out and out second class citizens. You can dress like a man, but you will never get to the highest level of knighthood because they lady of the lake knows what gender you are and won't let you drink out of her chalice. I'm sure there is someone online who would object to this setting as sexist (never mind it being based on history). So, should DTRPG yank it down because it's not empowering to women? It's not a wholesome setting you could put on a shelf next to Mulan (the Disney movie) where the heroine overcomes and proves to an empire that women are worthwhile.
I love warhammer fantasy (more for the empire than Bretonia where the sexists are), and I would stop shopping at DTRPG if they took it down. Similarly if I wanted to buy FATAL to find out for myself why everyone thinks it is so bad, I would be annoyed if it wasn't there.
|
|
starwar
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 52
|
Post by starwar on Sept 6, 2015 22:16:08 GMT -8
Except that DTRPG is not a gaming store, it is a RPG store. So they are a specialist shop. DTRPG can't afford to be like a FLGS, because they don't have the alternate revenue of comics, miniature war gaming, board games, etc. what the site is supposed to be is a one stop shopping place for RPGs online. The second they stop having the titles a customer is looking for is the moment they go to another website that does. Put aside the issues relating to sex acts. Take women in gaming. Warhammer fantasy role play has an entire area of their setting where women are out and out second class citizens. You can dress like a man, but you will never get to the highest level of knighthood because they lady of the lake knows what gender you are and won't let you drink out of her chalice. I'm sure there is someone online who would object to this setting as sexist (never mind it being based on history). So, should DTRPG yank it down because it's not empowering to women? It's not a wholesome setting you could put on a shelf next to Mulan (the Disney movie) where the heroine overcomes and proves to an empire that women are worthwhile. I love warhammer fantasy (more for the empire than Bretonia where the sexists are), and I would stop shopping at DTRPG if they took it down. Similarly if I wanted to buy FATAL to find out for myself why everyone thinks it is so bad, I would be annoyed if it wasn't there. I would imagine selling PDFs online, is a lot less expensive than owning a FLGS. I could be wrong I never tried either. If I did and times got tough I would sell comics, miniature war gaming, board games, etc. also. Your statement of the second DTRPG stops having titles a customer is looking for (paraphrased) is exactly why they made changes to their store. Lady of the lake wont let you drink from the chalice to reach full knighthood, yep checks out history wise, nothing to see here ladies move along. The issue costs DTRPG customers either way they went ("Target" or "sex shop"). I don't imagine they would take down Warhammer. However if Warhammer was removed because that company requested not being sold along side FATAL, would you drop Warhammer or DTRPG?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2015 23:03:27 GMT -8
Warhammer. Any company who tries these heavy handed bullying tactics deserves to lose customers. Your options are be on the shelf or take your ball and go home. If you do take your ball and go, don't expect people to follow you. warhammer fantasy role play is not popular like D&D, it can't afford to lose exposure do to being unhappy with the establishment. D&D might get away with it, but most companies just don't have that kind of clout. Either way it's a dick move.
P.S. By history I meant based on the Middle Ages. I did not mean to imply elves, or magic actually exists (which is what the lady of the lake is in warhammer). Gender equality is generally considered more modern. Most "ancient" societies were not so progressive.
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Sept 7, 2015 0:07:12 GMT -8
I'll stand by my statement that DTRPG is aiming to be the Target or Walmart of RPGs; they want the most customers possible, and so have to cater to the general public. They are a specialty store in the sense that they carry a specialty product, RPGs, but they're also a general store in that they carry all types of RPGs.
DTRPG can carry any product they want, but carrying certain titles sends a message, as does not carrying certain titles. Someone is going to find a specific title offensive, regardless of what it is. What I find offensive, other people might not, and vice versa. DTRPG has to consider how many people will consider a specific titles offensive. To quote from the announcement:
The bold up there is emphasis from me.
|
|
|
Post by Fiona on Sept 7, 2015 0:10:27 GMT -8
Don't like something, don't buy it. No reason something should be pulled because it could be offensive. Everyone finds something offensive today anyways.
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Sept 7, 2015 0:15:50 GMT -8
Don't like something, don't buy it. No reason something should be pulled because it could be offensive. Everyone finds something offensive today anyways. I agree, to a point. I feel there a point when enough people find something offensive to warrant pulling it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 0:23:53 GMT -8
The entire point of certain products is to be offensive. The movie Borat is a great example. No one is forcing you to watch it though. It's the same with DTRPG. It would be one thing to have nude people on the cover (since then you get into matters of legality), but as long as you have a choice to look/buy or not it shouldn't matter how many people are offended. Opinions and laws vary around the world, but in the U.S.A. We have freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Suffice it to say I agree with Voltaire on this one.
|
|