nanoboy
Journeyman Douchebag
Posts: 142
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Post by nanoboy on Jan 27, 2016 8:35:30 GMT -8
And this is why I don't venture into the 5E forum very much. A simple question leads to gratuitous D&D-bashing. Why do people who hate the game so much hang out in the forum trying to talk other people out of playing it? I don't know that anyone is hating on the game that much. The original poster asked for ideas about making difficult changes to one of the most fundamental parts of D&D. Several of us said that it didn't look like a good thing to try and suggested that other systems would probably serve him better. Personally, I've been heartily enjoying this edition of D&D. It's fast and fun. It's also very class-based.
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Post by Kainguru on Jan 27, 2016 10:41:22 GMT -8
And this is why I don't venture into the 5E forum very much. A simple question leads to gratuitous D&D-bashing. Why do people who hate the game so much hang out in the forum trying to talk other people out of playing it? I don't know that anyone is hating on the game that much. The original poster asked for ideas about making difficult changes to one of the most fundamental parts of D&D. Several of us said that it didn't look like a good thing to try and suggested that other systems would probably serve him better. Personally, I've been heartily enjoying this edition of D&D. It's fast and fun. It's also very class-based. I think what kaitoujuliet is referencing in more the prefaces in certain posts that basically say 'DnD is shit/I don't play DnD because it's shit/I've never played DnD because it's DnD and I think it's shit' and less the alternate system suggestions. . . . and yes kaitoujuliet, it's easy for haters to hate, it's just not very constructive. Unfortunately in a hobby like ours we'll always encounter a certain degree of system snobbery along with it's associated less ignoble forms of proselytizing. Aaron
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grimm
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 28
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Post by grimm on Jan 27, 2016 12:27:30 GMT -8
To clarify, I asked for suggestions because changing games, in this circumstance, is not an option. The players are all fairly new to RPGs, and decided to pick up the 5e book to see what RPGs were all about. It was only later that they discovered that I (a co-worker of a few of them) liked to GM RPGs. They asked me if I'd be willing to run a 5e game for them, so they could try out this game they were already reading about and owned the book for.
That's fair and reasonable. And to be candid, 5e is simple enough for brand new players in a way that many "better" games aren't, from the ease of reading the text to the simplicity of character design. I'm not going to make this table go out and buy other books, nor tell them that I dislike the silly way that DnD levels so much that I can't be bothered to create a great play experience for them.
I'm going to be a good GM, and FIX THE GAME so that my players can have more fun with it.
One of the ways I'm going to do that is coming up with a way that characters can gain proficiencies in things they want to become good at over time, like every other "good" RPG allows you to do. (And I'm not going to make them waste a Feat to do it.) THAT was the problem that I brought to this forum.
Thank you to the people above who actually posted useful suggestions that addressed my question.
To the rest, I'm sorry that I that my posting a question about D&D homebrew in a D&D forum somehow led you to think that suggestions of other systems was going to be in any way the least bit helpful.
Cheers.
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Post by archmagezemoc on Jan 28, 2016 16:01:47 GMT -8
Have them do skill trainings in down time. The way our group did it was you had to spend atleast 5/7 long rests/days of the week training a skill. If you were untrained prior it takes as many "weeks" of training as equal to your prof bonus. Unless you do like, semi-trained skills, in which case you could do like +1 per week trained up to prof bonus.
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grimm
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 28
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Post by grimm on Jan 28, 2016 16:55:51 GMT -8
Have them do skill trainings in down time. The way our group did it was you had to spend atleast 5/7 long rests/days of the week training a skill. If you were untrained prior it takes as many "weeks" of training as equal to your prof bonus. Unless you do like, semi-trained skills, in which case you could do like +1 per week trained up to prof bonus. Actually, I was thinking of doing something along these lines. The characters, in this case, are playing students at an adventuring college (Levels 1-4 are Journeyman, 5-7 Masters, 7-10 PhD). They are currently heading into level 4. I was thinking of asking the players to propose the next skill they want to learn, and get them to "take an elective course" in that skill. The course would involve 3-5 criteria to "pass" and become proficient. Take Performance for example (which is one of the things one of my PCs is asking about). The course for that skill could include: - Spend at least 5 "down-time" days practicing your skills. - Locate at least 2 experienced performers (non-PCs) and convince them to give you a lesson. - Arrange at least one public performance of your skills for either (a) a noble assembly or (b) a paying audience. I feel like this would add excuses for PCs to Roleplay the "schooling" part of their characters, as well as give them clear objectives that they can work towards. I think this would be more fun than just passing some time and then getting something.
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Post by HourEleven on Jan 28, 2016 17:13:53 GMT -8
Whenever I run DnD, I use the pathfinder society way of advancing. It doesn't help the "suddenly more powerful" part, but it does away with the "only need to squash two more goblins and I level up" thing. In pathfinder society you gain a level for completing 3 adventure sessions.
Presumably you've experienced and learned enough over those adventures, be it combat or RP. Keeps progression steady and makes it easy for the GM to plan encounters knowing exactly when the level will happen.
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Jan 28, 2016 20:47:29 GMT -8
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grimm
Initiate Douchebag
Posts: 28
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Post by grimm on Jan 28, 2016 22:16:23 GMT -8
Whenever I run DnD, I use the pathfinder society way of advancing. It doesn't help the "suddenly more powerful" part, but it does away with the "only need to squash two more goblins and I level up" thing. In pathfinder society you gain a level for completing 3 adventure sessions. Presumably you've experienced and learned enough over those adventures, be it combat or RP. Keeps progression steady and makes it easy for the GM to plan encounters knowing exactly when the level will happen. Oh, I eliminated XP tracking before the game even started. They gain "credits" for each "practicum assignment" they do. When they have a number of "credits" equal to their next level, they can level up to that level. So their first "mission" was worth 2 credits, so when they had gone out to the old castle, helped catalogue some books, found a secret door and made their way through the little dungeon that was hidden behind it, and returned to the school with their report about their findings, they got their 2 credits and went to level 2. (This also means they need 9 total credits for Journeyman status, then an additional 18 for Master, and 27 additional credits for PhD, which I thought was a nice distribution.) Every time they get home from a mission, they are presented with a new choice of three (or more) missions, each with a credit value assigned by the school based on the perceived difficulty of the assignment as judged by the administration. The Credits are assigned based on the total XP value of the critters / traps / troubles that the mission is designed to pit them against, and represent the appropriate percentage of their next level. This allows the players to have a lot more say in how big or how dangerous the "assignments" they choose are before they accept them, and gives them great narrative control in terms of where they go and the kind of work they do along the way.
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Post by ilina on Jan 29, 2016 20:26:50 GMT -8
there actually is a Rule in the 5e DMG
it takes a gold piece of resources per day and takes a number of days equal to 250 Divided by your intelligence score (not modifier). so a character with 10 Intelligence could pick up a skill in 25 days of training during downtime, at 8 hours per day. or if you truly wanted, you could pay a fee to a trained NPC to tutor you, adding their intelligence score to yours before dividing. so if you had a 10 intelligence and your tutor had 15 intelligence. those 25 days became 10 days. but you had to pay more per day, usually a gold piece per point of intelligence the tutor has, per day. after you divide the result, you round down, to get the number of days. you always round down.
so with those Examples. 25 gold to learn in 25 days if you had a 10 intelligence
or 160 gold to learn in 10 days. if you were a 10 intelligence student learning from a trained 15 intelligence tutor.
if both Student and Tutor had 20 intelligence. you could learn in 7 days at 21GP per day or 147 gold.
but a character with 16 intelligence is already learning things in 15 days,
you can also make a Con Save Every Day at DC 15 to double the amount of progress you earn on that particular day. but double progress costs double the resources, just like taking double the amount of days. so if you and your tutor both had 20 intelligence, you could learn a skill in 4 days for 147 gold coins.
by multiplying the base number of days and base costs by 4 before dividing, you can figure out how long it takes to learn a feat or train an attribute. a character with 16 intelligence who would need 15 days and 15 gold, to learn a new skill, tool, weapon or language, would need need 62 days to learn a feat or boost an attribute at 248 gold coins worth of materials for the whole 62 days. tutor costs are also quadrupled, using the 10 intelligence character learning from a 15 intelligence tutor who has the feat. it would take 40 days at a cost of 2,560 gold coins worth of materials for the whole 40 day session. so yeah, being tutored in feats is expensive and time consuming, even taking months,
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Post by ericfromnj on Feb 9, 2016 14:56:33 GMT -8
Lol. Yeah I wonder why anyone who says that would ever poke their head into the D&D section of a forum...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 3:48:20 GMT -8
Play it or don't. Just don't bitch that it sucks and then get indignant when people agree with you. It's like asking a mechanic how to make your beater car run like a sports car, then getting annoyed when he tells you the best thing you can do is get rid of it and get a better car. It is less painful to get a better car than to fix this one, which is my advise about D&D. The entire cost factor is kinda bullshit, since there are free systems that are available (FATE was pay what you want last I looked). What's left is the lazy arguement of not wanting to learn a new system. If that is your issue, you don't have the capacity to house rule something as ingrained in a system as class and level is to D&D.
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Post by ericfromnj on Feb 11, 2016 6:29:55 GMT -8
Play it or don't. Just don't bitch that it sucks and then get indignant when people agree with you. It's like asking a mechanic how to make your beater car run like a sports car, then getting annoyed when he tells you the best thing you can do is get rid of it and get a better car. It is less painful to get a better car than to fix this one, which is my advise about D&D. The entire cost factor is kinda bullshit, since there are free systems that are available (FATE was pay what you want last I looked). What's left is the lazy arguement of not wanting to learn a new system. If that is your issue, you don't have the capacity to house rule something as ingrained in a system as class and level is to D&D. Still doesn't explain why someone who hates D&D would even be in this subsection of the forum... Unless they are like the Mormons on gaming. "Have your heard the words of our savior Steve Jackson?"
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Post by ayslyn on Feb 11, 2016 7:36:22 GMT -8
Play it or don't. Just don't bitch that it sucks and then get indignant when people agree with you. It's like asking a mechanic how to make your beater car run like a sports car, then getting annoyed when he tells you the best thing you can do is get rid of it and get a better car. It is less painful to get a better car than to fix this one Among the worst analogies ever....
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Post by kaitoujuliet on Feb 11, 2016 8:03:23 GMT -8
Play it or don't. Just don't bitch that it sucks and then get indignant when people agree with you. It's like asking a mechanic how to make your beater car run like a sports car, then getting annoyed when he tells you the best thing you can do is get rid of it and get a better car. It is less painful to get a better car than to fix this one, which is my advise about D&D. And that's not D&D-bashing at all, no sir. (That was sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell.)
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Post by Kainguru on Feb 11, 2016 9:53:19 GMT -8
Keeping with the car analogy - bad as it is - why would you listen to a mechanic trying to sell you a new sports car when the 'old beater', in his opinion, might be an Aston Martin DB V in need of some TLC. The Aston might not perform as well as a new sports car but it's an Aston - it has providence: and that's a very different thing. Classic car afficiandos have very different expectation of their driving experience such that the input of a mechanic, wanting to sell you a contemporary car, is just not relevant or solicited. FTR: there is firm that specialises in refitting Aston DB V's so that they suffer less of the problems associated with cars from a different, and more dangerous, age of driving. That's the mechanic you'd be talking too. Aaron
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