|
Post by jazzisblues on Apr 4, 2012 8:06:18 GMT -8
@jib - the main reason to start Marines higher is to reflect the advances over "normal" human and keep them as potential PC's in line with them as NPC's. It's possible that normal humans would be fighting against enhanced human - IG fights Traitor Marine and vice versa. I haven't decided if I want to convert the various vehicles or not... Another way you could accomplish that would be to simply start the "advanced" species/races/whatever with (n) number of advances to reflect their training and evolution. Not in any way faulting what you've done just offering alternatives that might yield some benefit. Cheers, JiB
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Apr 4, 2012 17:24:54 GMT -8
Hunh. I actually went the other way after reading the Horus Heresy books; I thought Space Marines were boring as all hell until I read the books and then I was like "Wow. So they're actually real people. Cool." But I can understand where you're coming from, silvester10596. I have to say though, I like how there are no "good" factions in WH40k; even the humans are xenophobic monsters who deliver 'justice' like members of the Spanish Inquisition. Blessed is the mind too small for doubt!
Back to game stuff. JiB beat me to it, but I was also going to suggest scaling back a bit. But if you're going to have the PCs all be 'regular' humans of the Imperium and Adeptus Astartes will only ever be NPCs then you don't have to worry about balancing them as I initially said. Different people like different things, but I've never really been interested in military games or campaigns. I've never found the right balance between allowing the PCs to act independently yet making them feel like part of a military hierarchy. Which again is probably why the Fantasy Flight Games are Inquisitor and Rogue Trader; both allow the PC group to operate outside the normal channels of society.
As for the 'Nids? I would probably make them all immune to Fear, since the lesser species (Hormagaunts, Termagants, Rippers, Gargoyles, etc.) most likely don't have any sense of self preservation or possibly even of self awareness. Immune to Taunt and Intimidate though. Hmm... Yeah, it would be tough to Intimidate any kind of Tyranid organism since they just wouldn't give a fuck, so again, the little ones might be immune. Or rather they'd be immune while within range of one of the Hive Mind node organisms (like Warriors, Zoanthropes, and Hive Tyrants). But the big ones are smart. They know not to run headlong into an ambush or to charge through a zone of intense fire. So, while it's not exactly the same as intimidating them, you could use an excessive display of force to get them to change their tactics or reassess the situation for a bit. So that's effectively the same as intimidating them. I might have the PC use their Shooting or Fighting skill to intimidate a 'Nid though, rather than standard Intimidate.
I would argue that Taunt would work against the Tyranids as well. They're essentially animals, and follow their base instincts sometimes, which you could take advantage of. Put a tempting target out in a vulnerable position and they'll probably go for it. So using Taunt against a Tyranid wouldn't be hurling insults at them, but rather tricking them into focusing on a distraction or a decoy instead of the real threat or target.
|
|
|
Post by jazzisblues on Apr 4, 2012 19:41:24 GMT -8
What Hyve said.
JiB
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2012 6:22:02 GMT -8
@jib - What are these Advances that you speak of? My memory is terrible!! and I have a nasty habit of finding what I want from the rules and not bothering to read the rest until I need something more...
@hyvmynd - I liked the first couple of books because they painted marines in a different light, and they were well written... It just didn't stick.
I see what you mean about the Nids, I'll have to readdress the concept.
I'm pretty confident there are people out there that will want to play marines, so I don't want to exclude them as potential PCs.
I too have some issue with "military" games for pretty much the same reasons... "Kelly's Heros" is a great, fun movie, but makes almost zero sense when viewed from realistically. I can see vingettes of off-the-grid action that PCs could be part of, but a continued campaign of doing whatever they please? I highly doubt it.
Which all begs the question of why bother? I like the character driven small combats across large areas like in "Saving Private Ryan" and 40K just won't let you do that... Even the Kill Team rules are overly restrictive for the sake of "balance".
You SHOULD have 5 or 6 guys on that 48" x 72" table that has 75% terrain coverage and you SHOULD put them against several dozen enemies and let them go where they want and do what ever comes to mind... and it should all be good Cinema of the Mind!
I'm at work and have no desire to be here....
|
|
|
Post by jazzisblues on Apr 5, 2012 9:14:51 GMT -8
@silvester10596
As character adventure they gain experience and for every 5 xp (at higher levels it takes 10) they receive they get an Advance. With an advance a character receives points that can be used to purchase an attribute increase (move up to next die type), purchase an Edge, Buy off a Hindrance, or purchase (or increase) one or more skills.
There is also the concept of character ranks (Novice, Seasoned, Veteran ...) and there are rules about what one can buy with an advance. For example within one rank a character can only purchase an attribute increase once.
I recommend reading the relevant sections of the SWD.
Cheers,
JiB
|
|
HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
|
Post by HyveMynd on Apr 5, 2012 19:58:25 GMT -8
You SHOULD have 5 or 6 guys on that 48" x 72" table that has 75% terrain coverage and you SHOULD put them against several dozen enemies and let them go where they want and do what ever comes to mind... and it should all be good Cinema of the Mind! Well, you have to remember that WH40k is a miniatures war game. It's not really anything else, and to make it be something else you'd have to give the rules a pretty radical overhaul. GW has a few other games that are OOP now (I think...) where they tried smaller, more narrative style games; Necromunda and Inquisitor (which used 54mm figures). I suspect that the games were abandoned because they didn't require massive armies with 50 to 100+ miniatures per side, meaning that customers didn't spend gobs of money on them. It's sometimes easy to forget that game companies are still companies and need to make a profit to stay in business. GW does that by encouraging payers to have huge armies with hundreds of miniatures in their collections. I'll get off this rant before I write a 10+ page post about the evils of the GW company... Anyway, I wouldn't use any of the stats or mechanics from the WH40k game when converting stuff over to SW. As I mentioned, it's a large scale miniatures war game, and I imagine you'll end up with insanely high stats with a huge focus on combat if you do. Instead, I would use the fluff and background information in the WH40K Codexes for inspiration. Maybe use the stat lines comparatively to scale things in SW. For example, your average Tactical Marine has a Ballistic Skill (BS) of 4, which is pretty good. Let's make that Shooting d8 in Savage Worlds. Your average Imperial Guardsmen would then have Shooting d6 (BS 3).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 20:01:54 GMT -8
My rational was sort of this: A 2 in GW became a d4, a 3 became a d6, a 4 became a d8, a 5 became a d10 and a 6 became a d12. That sort of follows through with how I remember the 40K system; or at least I THINK that was how I did it, it's been a week and I'm fried with work stress... I see what you mean about a direct system conversion not being THE answer.
I think I have all of the old GW systems in PDF, I haven't looked at them in years because the local 40K club basically mocks people out of existence if they try to play anything else. My issues with 40K are more with players of the game, douche bags in a bad way!! I understand where GW as a company is coming from - I'm trying to open a small business myself and it's BRUTAL! What gets me about GW is the press release last year - Sales are down, Profits are up?!?!?!? That's like the CEO at my job telling the employees that a $2.2 BILLION buyout was organized and made public in less than 2 weeks! Just don't make sense...
If I can find some local players I may try to run them thru a short scene or two...
I'm going to try to devote some time this weekend to looking into the stuff JiB pointed out.
|
|
|
Post by jazzisblues on Apr 6, 2012 21:53:30 GMT -8
I've long had my issues with GW but their model is pretty clear, buy more of their stuff to play their game. Ok as a business model I can accept that. The biggest thing in my mind is that it's sort of an apples converting to oranges sort of thing. 40K is a mini's strategy / tactical game and SW is a role playing game ... Never the twain shall meet. Cheers, JiB
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2012 8:36:33 GMT -8
Yeah, that is one of the sticking points in my mind...
I WANT to do the conversion and have t playable, but then what? It seems only playable as a one-shot with little to no character development...
But once I get on a problem, I have to see it done... mostly...
|
|