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Post by ilina on May 25, 2016 17:30:18 GMT -8
Unless they acquire Hypoglycemia then in a world without insulin and other medications, then low blood sugar isn't even a little bit of a concern. Not to mention, one single instance of overindulgence will ever give you diabetes. It takes years of abuse on your body. So... Your response to someone being a munchkin is.... To be an even bigger munchkin.... Congrats. if the Honey has healing powers. it is most likely magical. excessive indulgence in magical honey at one time, isn't the same as indulging in real honey. i would rule the same if somebody chugged 10 potions a minute for 10 straight minutes. i mean, it is a munchkin GM practice, but it isn't like you can do much to stop the guy who thought he could gain trillions of experience points by slaughtering an entire beehive. it would be chronic low blood sugar. and the medications wouldn't be cheap, even in a modern setting. it isn't that the medications don't exist, it is that they are going to be a huge gold sink and even tracked like arrows. it would be an excuse to skim money off the top. not large amounts at once, but large amounts over time. if it were 70 gold per weeks worth of pills. it would be additional lifestyle expenses for the munchkin that tried to overindulge on magic honey to instantly gain a trillion XP. well, he wouldn't gain even 1XP. but a permanent condition that serves as a gold sink and gives him a reason to Adventure. i mean; OSR was all about punishing stupidity with painful drawbacks. walking to a beehive unprotected and trying to slaughter the trillion bees inside it with the intent to gain a trillion experience points at a rate of 1 per bee, would normally amount to character suicide. the munchkin should be happy that his character survived with a chronic condition. due to the magic in the honey and the poison in the bees. hypoglycemia would be the mechanical way to represent the symptoms of the condition.
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Post by ayslyn on May 25, 2016 18:28:12 GMT -8
It would be chronic High Blood Sugar, actually. By definition, diabetes is exclusively linked to HBS. Because of medication, you might drop your blood sugar into the LBS range, but it's not because of the diabetes itself.
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Post by ilina on May 25, 2016 18:37:58 GMT -8
It would be chronic High Blood Sugar, actually. By definition, diabetes is exclusively linked to HBS. Because of medication, you might drop your blood sugar into the LBS range, but it's not because of the diabetes itself. sorriesies; either way, the character is going to need expensive medicine.
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Post by ayslyn on May 25, 2016 19:25:29 GMT -8
Medicine that your typical F20 setting is centuries from developing.
But, regardless, said player is actually just one cleric away from fixing it. If Cure Disease can fix things like Mummy Rot than Diabetes would be a snap...
Unless you want to railroad them....
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Post by ilina on May 25, 2016 21:38:50 GMT -8
Medicine that your typical F20 setting is centuries from developing. But, regardless, said player is actually just one cleric away from fixing it. If Cure Disease can fix things like Mummy Rot than Diabetes would be a snap... Unless you want to railroad them.... finding a 5th level or higher cleric of a god that offers remove disease is going to be an entire adventure unto itself. convincing said cleric to cast it would require a series of quests done as favors for said cleric who is likely the high priest of a particular temple to even persuade them to say yes, and would take a decent reaction check with the cleric and a certified paladin to confirm that the healing won't benefit a vile individual. the cleric has to worship a god with access to the healing sphere, needs access to 3rd level spells, needs to actually have remove disease prepared, and in 2e and before, most magic related services couldn't be purchased with coin, they had to be commissioned with an exchange of services that could take a long time. i mean, you could buy medicine from the alchemist that provided healing, but it isn't potent enough to cure terminal illness. because alchemists need to put bread on thier own tables. and well, the cleric that cured it would expect you to convert to thier faith and pay a tithe of income that far exceeds the cost of mere medicine. 10% of your current and future earnings. plus the cost of indoctrination, the cost of indulgences, plus the cost to attend any religious ceremonies. and a requirement that yet another 20% of your income goes to feeding the poor, homeless and starving. so getting a cleric's help wasn't easy. especially in OSR with what the consequences of recieving that help meant.
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Post by Kainguru on May 25, 2016 22:42:01 GMT -8
i usually call the poison save a Fortitude Save. because both are interchangeable to me. both are primarily used for saving against poison. though consuming that much honey that quickly inflicts diabetes without a roll, so i would force the rolls, and reward the munchkin with diabetes. there might be XP for getting to the honey unarmored and winning without attacking. but there wouldn't be XP for killing all the bees, because the bees don't offer an Experience point beyond their poison factor. <Sigh> The honey has 'magical' healing properties - that would mitigate against this (impossible) acquisition of diabetes. Besides, as ayslyn points out, one does not develop diabetes like that and it has nothing to do with liver damage - it has to do with the regulatory system of the pancreas in combination with the pancreas' insulin production capacity. Besides - Paladin . . . immune to disease. Also - there is a Saving Throw vs Disease Aaron
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Post by ilina on May 25, 2016 23:16:25 GMT -8
i guess i got too fast in trying to think of a punishment for the munchkin for aggroing a bunch of bees. especially when Pathfinder has a monster for that purpose that could easily fill the job. plus the idiot would have to actually fight it if they aggro it.
a diminuitive swarm that does a guaranteed 2d6 damage per round with a save against a poison that inflicts dexterity damage. the swarm is also immune to weapon damage and single target abilities because it is a swarm. and there are only so many doses of honey, plus the swarm won't die in one sting. meaning you better have at least some alchemist fire if you want to fight the swarm, much smoother solution than diabetes or a trillion saves. because i forgot that 2e could benefit from PF Swarms.
the contributing characters get 800 XP to divide if they defeat, bypass or outsmart the swarm. but the Swarm has AC 5 (a lot in 1e) and around 30 hit points. i would add the flaw that it takes double damage from fire to balance things out.
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Post by Kainguru on May 26, 2016 0:38:37 GMT -8
i mean; OSR was all about punishing stupidity with painful drawbacks. W . T . F . . . in 2e and before, most magic related services couldn't be purchased with coin Complete and utter Bollocks . . . there is a table in the DMG listing the costs, in coin, of standard magical services Page 104 1e ADnD DMGa save against a poison that inflicts dexterity damage There is no such thing (RAW) as Dexterity Damage from Giant Bee Poison in either 1e or 2e Aaron
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Post by Kainguru on May 26, 2016 2:27:46 GMT -8
Launched the first of a 20+ page thread that will Never-Die Aaron
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Post by ayslyn on May 26, 2016 6:20:44 GMT -8
Medicine that your typical F20 setting is centuries from developing. But, regardless, said player is actually just one cleric away from fixing it. If Cure Disease can fix things like Mummy Rot than Diabetes would be a snap... Unless you want to railroad them.... finding a 5th level or higher cleric of a god that offers remove disease is going to be an entire adventure unto itself. convincing said cleric to cast it would require a series of quests done as favors for said cleric who is likely the high priest of a particular temple to even persuade them to say yes, and would take a decent reaction check with the cleric and a certified paladin to confirm that the healing won't benefit a vile individual. the cleric has to worship a god with access to the healing sphere, needs access to 3rd level spells, needs to actually have remove disease prepared, and in 2e and before, most magic related services couldn't be purchased with coin, they had to be commissioned with an exchange of services that could take a long time. i mean, you could buy medicine from the alchemist that provided healing, but it isn't potent enough to cure terminal illness. because alchemists need to put bread on thier own tables. and well, the cleric that cured it would expect you to convert to thier faith and pay a tithe of income that far exceeds the cost of mere medicine. 10% of your current and future earnings. plus the cost of indoctrination, the cost of indulgences, plus the cost to attend any religious ceremonies. and a requirement that yet another 20% of your income goes to feeding the poor, homeless and starving. so getting a cleric's help wasn't easy. especially in OSR with what the consequences of recieving that help meant. So, yeah... Like I said, your plan is to out munchkin the munchkin.... Congrats? Kain has thoughtfully already raised objects to the factually incorrect parts of the post, so I'll let his post speak for me on that front.
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Post by ayslyn on May 26, 2016 12:03:12 GMT -8
Launched the first of a 20+ page thread that will Never-Die Aaron Don't shut it down. I'm on medical house arrest right now, and need Something to entertain me...
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Post by Kainguru on May 26, 2016 12:58:13 GMT -8
Launched the first of a 20+ page thread that will Never-Die Aaron Don't shut it down. I'm on medical house arrest right now, and need Something to entertain me... Welll . . . we could turn it into an 'old farts' rant of a thread? For Example: 'These young millennials with their DnD's 3e and their Pathfinders [pathfinders?, weren't they like an army unit or summit like that?], just cause thats what was out when they discovered it. Then they bitch abouts edition wars and grognards and how its destroying the hobby by triggering thems in their whats-ya-callems?, safes spaces? [sounds like a ewe-fee-mizzin for whats me missus called her "in the back-of-a-VW-Bug", if you know whats I mean]. When its really thems thats got the problems and the bitching and making up shits that never was really true. 'Cause me? I've played all the editions of the DnD's and the Advanced DnD's and I aint got a bad bone with any of them really, 'cept maybe that 4th ones 'cause is was an ok game just woulda been better called summit else.
So the only ones bitchin about the edition wars are the ones that can't seems to get there heads round the differents editions and behaves as if their editions is the dee-finitive editions. Boredom, fecklessness and lacks of immoral fibre thats what I blame . . . me I couldn't gives a jaspers fuck what editions I grew up with 'cause when I wuz their age I was too busy snorting crank offa the toilet seats at back o the night club and they think they're having a 'wild night' if they mix a bit vodka and that redbulls together - pffft [redbulls and vodka, pussys]
OSR, OSR? time was it stood for Obviously Shitfaced Referee when we measured a good game night by number o fags packets, bottles o booze and lids o mary-joo-annas and munchkin wuz summit you got 'bout half ways thru an you all threw ya moneys together to get the pizza man round a-sap . .
Whipper snappers with their clean livin and poe-lite manners and readin rules like they sum sorta message from Holy Moses his-self as he come stompin down that mountains with his big ol clay tablets. Why don they stop hanging roun ma lawn and go do summit construct-ef likes we did in the day - like go score sum good weed or grab a couple o grams o coke [not that bilge piss cola coke neither, burns your nostrils summit fierce with all it carbin-ation] or summit [go on, get going ya young lack o hooliginisms: get offa ma lawn and go sit in the desert with a buncha mates an some pey-oty, go on get . . . here take some of my personal supply o mandrax while ya get gone, you won't find that anywhere easy now-a-days I cun tells ya's]' BUT Staying 'On Topic': Here are the Giant Bee Stats from 2eand the stats from 1e Aaron
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Post by ilina on May 26, 2016 13:57:34 GMT -8
well, i was going to port over a pathfinder monster. the Wasp Swarm; to Represent the Swarm of Bees from the hive, because yeah, my knowledge of OSR is limited, i haven't played it since 1998, i was 9 at the time, and i started in 1995 when i was 6. please forgive me for having forgotten and becoming confused on OSR after not having touched it for 18 years. most of my GMs were munchkins, so i picked up munchkin habits from GMs that tried to outmunchkin the munchkins to punish them.
i don't remember being able to buy spellcasting services for coin, or even magic items. i remember having to commission those services by doing tasks for the individual i was commissioning them from. if i needed a mere remove disease. i couldn't simply pay a cleric to cast it. i had to do tasks for the cleric while sick, to earn a chance to get the cleric to remove the disease, or i don't know, find some mythical flower that cures the ailments of those that drink a tea made from its petals.
1e and 2e are those games nearly everybody modified to fit their taste. because there were so many concealed rules the GM was intended to hide from their players and even interpret in a way that screwed the player over. OSR GM's were all about how hard they could make it on their players.
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Post by ayslyn on May 26, 2016 14:57:27 GMT -8
because there were so many concealed rules the GM was intended to hide from their players and even interpret in a way that screwed the player over. OSR GM's were all about how hard they could make it on their players. Uhm... No.
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Post by Kainguru on May 26, 2016 15:19:35 GMT -8
OSR GM's were all about how hard they could make it on their players. again W.T.F . . . Maybe in your brief experience of the system but that's hardly universal. Where do you think the, what we'll call, Nu-Skool-came from? some millennial woke up one day and saw Gaming Jesus who tasked them to preach the word and the light unto the heathen demon spawn of the OSR? BULLSHIT Time and again recollections of adversarial GM's correlate more with age and maturity than some fixed chronological period of time. Your GM's were dicks when you were younger - because the young are always dicks, no matter when they were young. Loooong before 1995 'Story' became a part of ADnD it was, in fact, the hallmark of 2e when 'that' edition war started (and there was internet then to fan the flames). 2e modules emphasized 'Story', Dragon Magazine ran endless articles on how to be better GM by being a collaborative GM and having fun WITH, not AGAINST, the players. In 1992, in keeping with the nature of many commerical products being released then, I designed an entire village for 2e, all the stats in it had stuff like: The seasonal crop rotation in the surrounding fields The Village Market Economics including availabilty of supply and the demand NPC Cards detailing the backstories for every NPC and their individual personality traits An entire chapter on Village Mores and Cultural Norms The interaction of the various faiths represented within the village Village politics and the Council Structure A legal code and order of precedence of offical authority Local Myths and Legends (My great sin was over-prepping) None of it was designed to fuck with PC's or screw them over. It was more 'Twin Peaks' meets ADnD than 'Murderhobo Cribs' The first few months (real time) of that campaign were spent entirely in the village role playing the hell out of it because all the PC's started with Zero Level Characters: an option presented in 'GreyHawk Adventures'. An option, I might add, that was developed because there was enough of a demand for it . . . even during the 'so called' Dark Times of the OSR when GM's were cruel masters that plagued the lands and blighted the fields of hapless players unfortunate enough to have not been born before the revelations of Gaming Jesus. The truth is games are played the way they are now because there have always been people that have played that way - their games lasted and so, having stood the test of time, their lessons became part of the zeitgeist of the hobby. Right now, I bet there are a dozen games being played by a dozen Generation Y kids that resemble the worst of that which you attribute to the OSR . . . and they weren't even fucking born when Gaming Jesus supposedly delivered his message. Count me a Gaming Jesus Atheist - the worst is that the only person who went the 'out munchkin the munchkin' route in this thread was you . . . a child of the age of Gaming Jesus . . . while the grognardian apostates seemed more interested in the fun of the exercise of playing with the player in playing the system . . . cause, you know, as a thought exercise it's FUN (like asking a bunch of mates after a few bongs and beers: 'What would you do to survive the Zombie Apocalypse?') Fuck Gaming Jesus and fuck the ridiculous nonsense that is the supposed Dark Age of OSR . . . Aaron
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