tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
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Posts: 192
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Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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Post by tappy on Apr 9, 2012 7:11:43 GMT -8
I can't speak to their thoughts on the matter. I would guess that they consider the risk to their copyrights acceptable. That would be their choice. You can't fault those that disagree with that risk assessment. And a large number of very prominent IP holders are as, if not more, aggressive defenders of their copyrights. I would disagree with these statements. I CAN fault those who disagree with that risk assessment, because they don't really get what the internet IS. The internet is not amazon.com where everyone is free to talk about your product and buy your product, but everything else having to so with your IP is stealing. The internet is not just for pictures of cats. The internet is a vast collaborative data tool, where we, the users, can share data freely. Any roadblocks someone puts up against that are removing themselves from the metabrain, and therefore decreasing their engagement and productivity. What is amazing is that the internet is productive without any need for incentives whatsoever, as long as people are engaged in your IP. If you don't believe me, go to Skyrim Nexus. Skyrim has been out for what, 5 months? the company hasn't even come up with any DLC for it yet, but the community has developed over 5000 mods for the game. that is, on average, 30 mods a day! now to be fair, many of them are crap, and others are to make your female characters naked with size H tits, but there are also bug fixes, content, and environments there that are as good or better than what bethesda came out with in the first place. All in 5 months! Furthermore, not even WoTC sends out cease and desist notices for conversions of the game. THe don't even do so when people write fluff for the game. The only time I have seen game companies send out cease and desist notices is when people post crunch from theer books directly online. My guess is that Kevin doesn't want his rabid fans to suddenly realize how shit his system is, by playing the same game with a better system.
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Post by ayslyn on Apr 9, 2012 10:57:19 GMT -8
Skyrim is a red herring, and you know it. Bethesda provided the tools to make mods. They choose to let people play in their sandbox. That doesn't mean that everyone else has to. And UGC is miles away from IP theft. Which is, technically, what publishing those conversion guides is.
And my guess is that his rabid fans aren't going to give a damn, because they disagree with your assessment of the system, and they are... Rabid fans.
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Post by daeglan on Apr 9, 2012 15:03:33 GMT -8
Skyrim is a red herring, and you know it. Bethesda provided the tools to make mods. They choose to let people play in their sandbox. That doesn't mean that everyone else has to. And UGC is miles away from IP theft. Which is, technically, what publishing those conversion guides is. And my guess is that his rabid fans aren't going to give a damn, because they disagree with your assessment of the system, and they are... Rabid fans. Nope they agree with our assessment that his system is shit. They love his worlds enough to put up with his idiocy. They have tried suggestion fixes etc. many times. Many have been banned from his forums for doing so. I see this as being one of those things where the owner of the company is the biggest road block and when he finally leaves the company for what ever reason suddenly things will move in a better direction.
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HyveMynd
Supporter
Dirty hippie, PbtA, Fate, & Cortex Prime <3er
Posts: 2,273
Preferred Game Systems: PbtA, Cortex Plus, Fate, Ubiquity
Currently Playing: Monsterhearts 2
Currently Running: The Sprawl
Favorite Species of Monkey: None
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Post by HyveMynd on Apr 9, 2012 18:33:07 GMT -8
... and others are to make your female characters naked with size H tits ... I think tappy just found me a reason to finally get Skyrim. ;D
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Post by rickno7 on Apr 10, 2012 6:16:33 GMT -8
Kevin is just a product of his era.
Look at his peers of that era. By 1981 Gygax had lost control of Dungeons and Dragons to people that really exploited his generosity and lack of business sense. He actively shopped around for people that could help him get control... and then THEY took the game away from him as well.
Then we also have Steve Jackson. Brilliant a man as he is, he has stuck to his business style that helped him stay in control through the 80's. He bagged on the OGL and most things to do with it in your podcast interview. Sure he has a big fat "I told you so" stamp he can smash on WOTC, but anyone that reads about the industry knows that it was more than the OGL that created Pathfinder. There are many companies, such as Pinnacle, doing very well for themselves while using open yet controlled licensing. One bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch. You find the weakness of the apple and adapt the apple.
I'm not apologizing for the guy. I'm the kind of guy that has always pushed for embracing technology in music that was made after 1970. I tell other bassists "stick with your caveman tubes, I'll be carrying my stuff in and drinking beer by the time you get out of the parking lot".
I'm just trying to explain why he is the way he is. Though I really wish he could team up with someone a little younger, a little more able to move with the times, Rifts(and Nightbane) could have been much more of a game changer rather than a foot note. He doesn't even use desktop publishing, he still does everything by hand... that is nuthouse certifiable
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Post by daeglan on Apr 10, 2012 16:51:49 GMT -8
Kevin is just a product of his era. Look at his peers of that era. By 1981 Gygax had lost control of Dungeons and Dragons to people that really exploited his generosity and lack of business sense. He actively shopped around for people that could help him get control... and then THEY took the game away from him as well. Then we also have Steve Jackson. Brilliant a man as he is, he has stuck to his business style that helped him stay in control through the 80's. He bagged on the OGL and most things to do with it in your podcast interview. Sure he has a big fat "I told you so" stamp he can smash on WOTC, but anyone that reads about the industry knows that it was more than the OGL that created Pathfinder. There are many companies, such as Pinnacle, doing very well for themselves while using open yet controlled licensing. One bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch. You find the weakness of the apple and adapt the apple. I'm not apologizing for the guy. I'm the kind of guy that has always pushed for embracing technology in music that was made after 1970. I tell other bassists "stick with your caveman tubes, I'll be carrying my stuff in and drinking beer by the time you get out of the parking lot". I'm just trying to explain why he is the way he is. Though I really wish he could team up with someone a little younger, a little more able to move with the times, Rifts(and Nightbane) could have been much more of a game changer rather than a foot note. He doesn't even use desktop publishing, he still does everything by hand... that is nuthouse certifiable Wait what? ? he does not use Desktop Publishing? No wonder he can never hit a deadline...
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Post by rickno7 on Apr 10, 2012 18:04:59 GMT -8
yea, one of the ex-authors of Palladium stuff was talking about it. Bill Coffin was his name, and he did some good stuff for them around 2000. Said the reason all Palladium books are 2 column was because he hand assembles things still. Also when things are in alphabetical order except for the last couple, it is caused by using the old style. When something gets added, it is just too time consuming to reformat things and add it in. So the backs of the books are sometimes very jumbled and random.
I haven't read anything done since 2006, but I have 20+ Palladium published books. It might take him forever to do them, but I've been happy with what he does eventually put out... at least on the world building end of things.
(added later)
To add another to this group of pioneers that are similar in some way; Warhammer. Ever go to a hobby store's website or online store and look for warhammer stuff? They aren't even allowed to post a list of what they have in stock. I've always read the disasters of trying to work with them for video games too. Out of all these guys, the people at Warhammer seem to be actively rejecting success.
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Post by daeglan on Apr 10, 2012 22:29:18 GMT -8
I agree their world building stuff is class A. Too bad it is tied down to what has to be the clunkiest disjointed system on the planet.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 4:27:17 GMT -8
I agree their world building stuff is class A. Too bad it is tied down to what has to be the clunkiest disjointed system in the three galaxies. Fixed! ;D
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
Posts: 192
Preferred Game Systems: Apoc World, Monsterhearts, L5r, Wod
Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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Post by tappy on Apr 11, 2012 5:03:30 GMT -8
Kevin is just a product of his era. Look at his peers of that era. By 1981 Gygax had lost control of Dungeons and Dragons to people that really exploited his generosity and lack of business sense. He actively shopped around for people that could help him get control... and then THEY took the game away from him as well. Then we also have Steve Jackson. Brilliant a man as he is, he has stuck to his business style that helped him stay in control through the 80's. He bagged on the OGL and most things to do with it in your podcast interview. Sure he has a big fat "I told you so" stamp he can smash on WOTC, but anyone that reads about the industry knows that it was more than the OGL that created Pathfinder. There are many companies, such as Pinnacle, doing very well for themselves while using open yet controlled licensing. One bad apple shouldn't spoil the bunch. You find the weakness of the apple and adapt the apple. I'm not apologizing for the guy. I'm the kind of guy that has always pushed for embracing technology in music that was made after 1970. I tell other bassists "stick with your caveman tubes, I'll be carrying my stuff in and drinking beer by the time you get out of the parking lot". I'm just trying to explain why he is the way he is. Though I really wish he could team up with someone a little younger, a little more able to move with the times, Rifts(and Nightbane) could have been much more of a game changer rather than a foot note. He doesn't even use desktop publishing, he still does everything by hand... that is nuthouse certifiable That is actually a very reasonable explanation.
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
Posts: 192
Preferred Game Systems: Apoc World, Monsterhearts, L5r, Wod
Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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Post by tappy on Apr 11, 2012 5:05:06 GMT -8
I agree their world building stuff is class A. Too bad it is tied down to what has to be the clunkiest disjointed system in the three galaxies. Fixed! ;D Pukkatukka, one day, you and I are going to get very, very drunk together. The bottle of alcohol that I will buy for us to do so is your choice. It will be AAAAH-MAZING!
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tappy
Journeyman Douchebag
Host
Posts: 192
Preferred Game Systems: Apoc World, Monsterhearts, L5r, Wod
Favorite Species of Monkey: Space Monkey
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Post by tappy on Apr 11, 2012 5:08:57 GMT -8
The point of this thread is not to make fun of Kevin Siebiedgjgisda, nor his system, but the fact that against all odds, we all love his fucking game world.
So lets do some awesome shit to it!
I am finishing up a draft of a atlantean full conversion borg that is run off captured Fairies, whose eternal weeping slowly drives the character insane, much like a M.O.M. device.
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joegun
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Preferred Game Systems: Savage Worlds
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Currently Running: Rippers Resurrected, and Savage RIFTS!
Favorite Species of Monkey: Baboon
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Post by joegun on Apr 11, 2012 11:58:07 GMT -8
The point of this thread is not to make fun of Kevin Siebiedgjgisda, nor his system, but the fact that against all odds, we all love his fucking game world. So lets do some awesome shit to it! I am finishing up a draft of a atlantean full conversion borg that is run off captured Fairies, whose eternal weeping slowly drives the character insane, much like a M.O.M. device. OMG I LOVED playing Crazies! They were the best!
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Post by rickno7 on Apr 11, 2012 19:30:46 GMT -8
The point of this thread is not to make fun of Kevin Siebiedgjgisda, nor his system, but the fact that against all odds, we all love his fucking game world. So lets do some awesome shit to it! I am finishing up a draft of a atlantean full conversion borg that is run off captured Fairies, whose eternal weeping slowly drives the character insane, much like a M.O.M. device. OMG I LOVED playing Crazies! They were the best! I had a crazy once. He carried around a golf club and told Bob Hope jokes. He used the club to test out materials to see if they were mega damage materials. If his club couldn't dent it, he pulled out the laser gun, but ALWAYS the club first.
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Post by greatwyrm on Apr 11, 2012 19:50:23 GMT -8
I am finishing up a draft of a atlantean full conversion borg that is run off captured Fairies, whose eternal weeping slowly drives the character insane, much like a M.O.M. device. I'm not sure if you can hear me applauding from up here or not.
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