maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Oct 16, 2016 0:11:28 GMT -8
How do we all feel about house rules?
Are they ever appropriate? Or do they signal the beginning of the end as you begin to get tired of a given system?
How much house ruling can be done before the system ceases to be that system anymore and becomes.... something else?
Myself - I prefer if a system can stand on its own and be sufficiently fun to play that I don't have to house rule at all. As soon as I have to start fucking with it, I start looking on the shelf and at the store for something that does what I want it to do....
I think this is why I have grown to love GURPS - I have never felt a need to house rule in that system.
I'd also be interested in hearing what house rules people use, and why.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Oct 16, 2016 5:25:12 GMT -8
I'll house rules out of expediency if there's something someone wants to do, the way to do it in system is not readily apparent, and I don't want to bog down the action or suspense by rifling through a book.
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Post by zoomfarg on Oct 16, 2016 8:35:58 GMT -8
I try to avoid house rules because I don't trust myself to know the system better than the designers; I don't want to risk unbalancing the system.
I try to reserve house rules for two situations:
1) something in RAW is broken, and I understand how it's broken. For example, L5R RAW art rules are pretty terrible IMO. IIRC, RAW regards art as an economic product valued with money. Shouldn't it be a social product valued with Status? I've tried a few versions of art house rules, but I don't have any I'm torally satisfied with...
2) RAW doesn't cover something, I need to cover it for my game. For example, while trying an early version of MoT, one of my players wanted to make a called shot to a particular hit location, but we didn't find called shot rules, so we house ruled it (dunno if this really counts; the game was still in beta after all)
When I do house rule, I try to take cues from the pre-existing rules. So the L5R art rules are a combination of standard success and accumulating success, and the MoT hit location rules required extra successes.
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Post by zoomfarg on Oct 16, 2016 8:45:29 GMT -8
(My group has house-ruled L5R so extensively... art, new maneuvers, better fear...)
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 16, 2016 10:24:19 GMT -8
I try to avoid house rules because I don't trust myself to know the system better than the designers; I don't want to risk unbalancing the system. Heh. Having known and spoken with a number of developers over the years, trust me, you're perfectly safe. Pretty much all of them started with "I love this game, but I can make it better." That being said, I am of the opinion that those highly modular systems, like GURPS, are the ultimate expression of home ruled games. All the different optional rules means that two games are more likely to be different than the same. The only difference is that Steve and company have vetted those options for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 0:22:19 GMT -8
I try to avoid house rules because I don't trust myself to know the system better than the designers; I don't want to risk unbalancing the system. Heh. Having known and spoken with a number of developers over the years, trust me, you're perfectly safe. Pretty much all of them started with "I love this game, but I can make it better." That being said, I am of the opinion that those highly modular systems, like GURPS, are the ultimate expression of home ruled games. All the different optional rules means that two games are more likely to be different than the same. The only difference is that Steve and company have vetted those options for you. GURPS does not seem like an expression of house rules to me. GURPS says, "Here are the basics, the rest are optional add one". House rules on the other hand are often much more than a way to add depth to the initial system. Many house rules change the way the system operates on a much more fundamental level. Take something simple like changing advantage to a static modifier for D&D 5E. Normally, advantage more likely to help you if the result you need trends towards the middle of the curve (10-11 being the middle). As you need more or less extreme results, the less it helps you. Changing that to a simple +4 is about the same if you are in those middle results, but has a much larger effect on the extreme ends of the D20. What is the result for your game? You just made it easier to get unlikely results and harder to be able to accomplish average tasks. I'm playing in a GURPS game with houserules soon. The house rule in question is that combat consists on contested checks instead of seperate checks between sucess and failure. If your opponent lands his blow by 5 and you make your parry on the dot, you fail to defend. This has major implications for survivability. Other house rules in the game change how defenses are calculated and what you can and cannot defend against (I.E., no dodges vs most guns). If you thought GURPS was a deadly game before, these house rules really amp up the lethality. They are not just an add on, but a change in the tone of the entire game. My overall feel about house rules is that you need to know what you are trying to accomplish with them, and test them to make sure they are accomplishing that goal. Once you have them, everyone needs to be informed of their nature in advance. It sucks showing up as the sword and board guy, only to find out that the GM houseruled all ranged weapons as hitting touch AC. Hence house rules need to be discussed in the group contract before people are set loose to make decisions based on information (the rules of the game) which no longer applies.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Oct 17, 2016 0:57:01 GMT -8
I am of the opinion that those highly modular systems, like GURPS, are the ultimate expression of home ruled games. I get what you're saying, and I have thought about this quite a bit. What's the difference really between using the cinematic rules in GURPS and house-ruling? Well - hopefully the difference is that one of the people in the above sentence knew what they were doing I don't pretend to be a game designer, so I find games that provide optional/modular rules to be very useful if I want to do something specific. Most if the time though, I just want to play a game that holds up without me fucking with it too much. I'm lazy like that.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Oct 17, 2016 4:56:45 GMT -8
The most extreme house rule I ever instituted was to treat the spell level charts for wizards and clerics as a spell point table in 1e and 2e AD&D.
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Post by ayslyn on Oct 17, 2016 7:47:17 GMT -8
I am of the opinion that those highly modular systems, like GURPS, are the ultimate expression of home ruled games. I get what you're saying, and I have thought about this quite a bit. What's the difference really between using the cinematic rules in GURPS and house-ruling? Well - hopefully the difference is that one of the people in the above sentence knew what they were doing I don't pretend to be a game designer, so I find games that provide optional/modular rules to be very useful if I want to do something specific. Most if the time though, I just want to play a game that holds up without me fucking with it too much. I'm lazy like that. Again, from what I have learned from talking with a number of designers, and reading the fantastic Designers and Dragons, you're right where they are on that front. Designers are not some mythical god. They don't have some secret knowledge. All the great ones started out with the same exact idea in their head. "I like this game, but this rule here doesn't really work for me. I think I can do it better." ALL of the designers that I know (and I feel confident that most of those that I've been reading about as well) would laugh their collective asses off at the sentiment that you couldn't do as good a job as they.
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Post by Kenigma23 on Oct 17, 2016 8:14:55 GMT -8
Personally I avoid them b/c when you add one it is hard not to break something elsewhere in the system… That said I will do it from time to time if something is really impeding game play. Though I typically only do it if everyone agrees so at least we have a consensus.
In the case of GURPS it is so insanely modular that sure can call the rules past the basic set optional… or vetted house rules. From what I’ve seen interacting with the system, its creators, etc (admittedly limited relative to folks like mook) many of the rules that came in during second and third were “house rules” to support new add-ons. Since the great “4th editioning” of GURPS all of that got re-re-reviewed and one system was created to rule them all… …then the process promptly started over again… It is hard to tell the difference between a house rule and a new rule in GURPS just due to the way the game works. They’
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 8:08:32 GMT -8
As I only run Savage Worlds I've tried to avoid extensive house ruling so as not to unbalance the system. They have already put in different setting rules, like Gritty damage or no power points, that can adjust the feel of the game without tipping the scales too much.
That being said, the few rules or addendums I have done were mainly to fill skill shortfalls or gaps that were needed for the type of world I was running. For my sci fi anime game, I needed some rules for ship to ship combat that involved them hitting each other with mech arms, ala Outlaw Star. I simply adjusted the vehicular combat rules to include another range where boarding and Vehicular melee combat could take place.
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dnddad
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Post by dnddad on Oct 18, 2016 9:23:25 GMT -8
In every DnD game we have a few 30 sided dice each called, "the Nut." Once per session players are allowed to roll "the Nut" instead of any other single roll. This means you can roll for Attack/Damage/Skill check/whatever. If you are rolling to-hit and get a Natural 30, then you get to narrate the outcome however you wish.
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Post by joecrak on Nov 7, 2016 8:24:33 GMT -8
There is a line of thinking that goes something like this: Once you start using a house rule, you are no longer playing the game that was written. You are saying something about the system is broken, or doesn't work, so you need to change what was written to make it work for you, but by definition, you are no longer officially playing that game.
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sbloyd
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Post by sbloyd on Nov 7, 2016 8:57:25 GMT -8
That's a very legalistic view of game-playing.
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maxinstuff
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Post by maxinstuff on Nov 7, 2016 13:27:20 GMT -8
I think that's very relevant though because I would say that people who house rule very extensively may not be playing the same game.
This is one of the reasons RAW is important to me. In the internet age I do feel that community is an important aspect of this hobby, and especially when interacting with people who may be many thousands of miles away, you can say "DnD 5e" and they know what you are talking about. You can pick up a game with strangers, and know what to do.
Sure, every GM brings their own style to the table - but that just makes it more important IMO because you want to keep things accessible.
It also empowers players to buy the books knowing that this investment will have value in the game.
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