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Post by uncommonman on May 2, 2017 6:16:56 GMT -8
There is and has been many heated debates on the forum about dice cheating, changing story and if the GM should change the story to make it more fun.
This is a necessary topic that even if there's been some talk about it on the show hasn't been debated enough (in my opinion).
I think a good talk about this would be fun.
BUT I think you need to find someone that is on the "no cheating" side for the show.
@tim is clearly of the "cheating" side and me and others are opposed.
Yes all has the right to their own opinion but maby something new can be learned by all.
Metagaming, quantum ogres and such needs to be taken up on the show.
Ps. And we also need a tactics show...
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Post by Probie Tim on May 2, 2017 12:26:32 GMT -8
I'm trying very hard to not get offended by the term "cheating". I think that's a gross misrepresentation of stance on the issue.
I do not advocate cheating. I advocate fair and impartial adjudication of the rules, with the understanding that in pursuit of that goal sometimes the GM will have to make a judgement which supersedes the rules. That is not cheating.
You should be a bit more careful when you're tossing around terms like "cheating".
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Post by uncommonman on May 2, 2017 13:12:15 GMT -8
I'm trying very hard to not get offended by the term "cheating". I think that's a gross misrepresentation of stance on the issue. I do not advocate cheating. I advocate fair and impartial adjudication of the rules, with the understanding that in pursuit of that goal sometimes the GM will have to make a judgement which supersedes the rules. That is not cheating. You should be a bit more careful when you're tossing around terms like "cheating". If the GM rolls dice and don't follow what the dice say that IS cheating. You can call it fudging or artistic license but one of the definitions of cheating is: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game. But we can call it fudging if you want...
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 2, 2017 13:19:40 GMT -8
Why did this need a second thread to continue this conversation you and Tim were already having in the show thread?
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Post by Probie Tim on May 2, 2017 13:23:34 GMT -8
I don't know, but I'm fairly put off at being called a cheater.
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Post by OFTHEHILLPEOPLE on May 2, 2017 13:24:31 GMT -8
Aren't you a Mod of some kind?
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Post by Probie Tim on May 2, 2017 13:36:36 GMT -8
I am. But to pull mod powers on this would be inappropriate. I'm not a dick... well, I mean, I am, but I'm not that kind of a dick. Look, uncommonman, you may disagree with many of my practices, but almost all of the games I've read have clauses which allow the GM to make judgement calls like that. If you want, I can look them all up and quote chapter and verse, although I'd much rather spend my time doing something else. To call it cheating when there is a specific rule that allows it is wrong. And "cheater" is a heavy term to lob at someone. Look at the some of the words the definition you yourself posted: "deceive", "mislead", "dishonestly". I'm an easy going guy and I can joke around with the best of them. But you really need to consider what you're saying before you toss "cheater" at someone.
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Post by hoseirrob on May 2, 2017 13:56:00 GMT -8
This is interesting. Tim, by uncommonman's definition you are "cheating" at the game. My guess is that you don't see it as a win/lose game, so the "cheat" moniker does not apply, which is totally cool.
Unless you guys are going to shoot it out at high noon, I think this is a case of two differing opinions at a fundamental base that won't be solved in an online forum.
Maybe you guys just need to play something together. That's probably better than my other option, which is hate sex.
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Post by uncommonman on May 2, 2017 13:58:44 GMT -8
Why did this need a second thread to continue this conversation you and Tim were already having in the show thread? Because of the multiple times this or similar discussions has come up im the forum but hasn't been talked about (with people from both sides) on the show. @tim I don't want to offend you but I would be offended if I found out that my GM would do the things you have described and feel cheated upon. That is why I used the word cheating. The "what is cheating" debate is unnecessary so I won't call it that in an attempt to keep the discussion civil.
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Post by Monkeyfun Dave on May 2, 2017 14:18:00 GMT -8
This is interesting. Tim, by uncommonman's definition you are "cheating" at the game. My guess is that you don't see it as a win/lose game, so the "cheat" moniker does not apply, which is totally cool. Unless you guys are going to shoot it out at high noon, I think this is a case of two differing opinions at a fundamental base that won't be solved in an online forum. Maybe you guys just need to play something together. That's probably better than my other option, which is hate sex. Hate sex solved nothing between you and I, you rotten bastard.
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on May 2, 2017 14:25:47 GMT -8
And I quoth the holy Book of Gygax, the first edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons DMG:
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on May 2, 2017 15:18:57 GMT -8
Also, the Afterword to the same tome:
He was a wordy bastard.
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battlematt
Apprentice Douchebag
Posts: 74
Preferred Game Systems: Rules light & intuitive
Currently Running: Nuttin.
Favorite Species of Monkey: Spanked
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Post by battlematt on May 2, 2017 20:27:27 GMT -8
I don't see how this would even be considered a show topic, as it has been discussed at length several times, and the stance of the crew is pretty much known.
Stu will fudge dice when needed. JiB usually doesn't. Others' mileage may vary. There are differences in preference, but nobody considers it "cheating".
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on May 2, 2017 23:34:05 GMT -8
I am. But to pull mod powers on this would be inappropriate. I'm not a dick... well, I mean, I am, but I'm not that kind of a dick. But, as moderator do you have the power to move this thread to where it should be, Show Topic Suggestions?
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Post by Probie Tim on May 3, 2017 5:10:54 GMT -8
But, as moderator do you have the power to move this thread to where it should be, Show Topic Suggestions? Good point, done.
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