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Post by Probie Tim on May 8, 2017 6:27:03 GMT -8
I'm not certain where that came from, and I'm not certain why you keep going back to statements like that. I'm not certain if you're ignoring the things I'm saying or just purposely twisting them. But that's... not how I run, nor is it what I'm advocating for. Why roll dice if the outcome is pre determined? I have never, ever, ever said that I roll dice when the outcome is pre-determined. Except in the case of perception rolls when they're related to a clue the PCs need to get. Then I use the roll to help me determine how much information they get; the better the roll, the more information they get about the clue. I have also said that on one occasion I turned a deadly combat roll during the first session of a new game into a not deadly combat roll to give the story a chance to get off the ground. I would do that again, but only under those specific circumstances. But yes I think the rules comes before GM agency Yup, that's what I thought.
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Post by uncommonman on May 8, 2017 7:31:16 GMT -8
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Post by Probie Tim on May 8, 2017 7:44:02 GMT -8
I have no idea what that link has to do with anything, but I'm starting to feel like I'm being trolled. So... I'm out.
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Post by uncommonman on May 8, 2017 7:46:42 GMT -8
I have no idea what that link has to do with anything, but I'm starting to feel like I'm being trolled. So... I'm out. I'm not trolling it was an attempt of humor.
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Post by Probie Tim on May 8, 2017 8:30:09 GMT -8
Ok.
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Post by Kainguru on May 8, 2017 9:54:55 GMT -8
'Whose line is it anyway' is a fantastic piece of my regular radio 4 consumption. It's very 'British', to be honest I don't think the author of that article actually 'gets it' - they get part of it but the real point is more nebulous. It's about institutions, irony, self depreciation, putting ones tongue firmly in ones cheek and being willing to be a good sport by playing a game for the games sake to the end goal of simply having a good time, not to win or get a prize (that last bit the article got right but for the wrong reasons) .... Wait til you try The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer with their 'Shooting Stars' .... UVAVU Aaron
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Post by The Northman on May 8, 2017 14:28:22 GMT -8
Role-playing is a hobby which people enjoy in many different ways. Make sure the people that you play with match up with your gaming style. Otherwise there's no need to jump on soapboxes, condemn others for their play-style as some sort of hobbyshop criminals, or act like there's one "right" or "wrong" way to play these games when people are clearly having fun with both options.
I don't see the need to bog down an entire show with that conversation as it's been framed in this particular slog.
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fredrix
Master Douchebag
Posts: 2,142
Preferred Game Systems: Fate, L5R, Pendragon, Gumshoe, Feng Shui
Currently Playing: Pendragon, Song of Ice and Fire, L5R, Feng Shui, Traveller
Currently Running: Fate, Coriolis, Nights Black Agents
Favorite Species of Monkey: 1970's NTV, dubbed by the BBC (though The Water Margin beats it)
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Post by fredrix on May 8, 2017 14:47:59 GMT -8
'Whose line is it anyway' is a fantastic piece of my regular radio 4 consumption. It's very 'British', to be honest I don't think the author of that article actually 'gets it' - they get part of it but the real point is more nebulous. It's about institutions, irony, self depreciation, putting ones tongue firmly in ones cheek and being willing to be a good sport by playing a game for the games sake to the end goal of simply having a good time, not to win or get a prize (that last bit the article got right but for the wrong reasons) .... Wait til you try The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer with their 'Shooting Stars' .... UVAVU Aaron "Who's line is it anyway?" Was the channel 4 improv show. You mean "I'm sorry, I haven't a clue"
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Post by Kainguru on May 8, 2017 15:05:54 GMT -8
'Whose line is it anyway' is a fantastic piece of my regular radio 4 consumption. It's very 'British', to be honest I don't think the author of that article actually 'gets it' - they get part of it but the real point is more nebulous. It's about institutions, irony, self depreciation, putting ones tongue firmly in ones cheek and being willing to be a good sport by playing a game for the games sake to the end goal of simply having a good time, not to win or get a prize (that last bit the article got right but for the wrong reasons) .... Wait til you try The Smell of Reeves and Mortimer with their 'Shooting Stars' .... UVAVU Aaron "Who's line is it anyway?" Was the channel 4 improv show. You mean "I'm sorry, I haven't a clue" Yes that's the one . . . sorry. though the original WLIIA show DID start on radio 4 with Clive Anderson (you can catch it on radio 4 extra). there's also the news quiz - which is great . . . Aaron
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sbloyd
Supporter
WHAT! A human in a Precursor service vehicle?!
Posts: 2,762
Preferred Game Systems: Storyteller; Dresden; Mage
Favorite Species of Monkey: Goddamnit, Curious George is a CHIMP not a monkey! Stop teaching my daughter improper classification!
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Post by sbloyd on May 8, 2017 15:33:46 GMT -8
We had the Clive Anderson version here in the states on Comedy Central, once upon a time.
Lessee, I was in my first marriage then, so that would make it... over twenty years ago?
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Post by Kainguru on May 8, 2017 22:13:27 GMT -8
We had the Clive Anderson version here in the states on Comedy Central, once upon a time. Lessee, I was in my first marriage then, so that would make it... over twenty years ago? 1988 was the first radio series. The tv series followed soon after. Aaron
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Post by savagedaddy on May 9, 2017 5:13:54 GMT -8
I am. But to pull mod powers on this would be inappropriate. I'm not a dick... well, I mean, I am, but I'm not that kind of a dick. Look, uncommonman, you may disagree with many of my practices, but almost all of the games I've read have clauses which allow the GM to make judgement calls like that. If you want, I can look them all up and quote chapter and verse, although I'd much rather spend my time doing something else. To call it cheating when there is a specific rule that allows it is wrong. And "cheater" is a heavy term to lob at someone. Look at the some of the words the definition you yourself posted: "deceive", "mislead", "dishonestly". I'm an easy going guy and I can joke around with the best of them. But you really need to consider what you're saying before you toss "cheater" at someone. I find this reaction interesting. Specifically regarding dice fudging... it is a dick move to call for a dice roll and then decide you don't like the result and 'adjust' it to fit the situation. It is like changing a combat rule on the fly because you don't want your big bad to die at an non-dramatic point. Players make decisions based on rules, and changing the outcome on the fly is cheating. The reason we have dice in roleplaying games is to remove the decision of the outcome from the Gamemaster and Players. It is a randomizer that bipasses GM Fiat. I think it is also a bit of a control issue. I've heard the argument of only fudging in the players' favor. If you can't roll the dice and abide by the outcome, then don't call for the dice roll. At the end of the day it is not much different than adding more hitpoints to a creature after the fact to keep in the fight when a tremendous dice roll should wipe it out. You'll all agreed to sit down and play a game with rules. If I landed on Go To Jail in Monopoly and decided the roll that put there was one digit higher or lower to avoid the outcome, I would be called a cheater. It's a dick move. And it is cheating.
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Post by Probie Tim on May 9, 2017 6:34:27 GMT -8
I find this reaction interesting. Specifically regarding dice fudging... it is a dick move to call for a dice roll and then decide you don't like the result and 'adjust' it to fit the situation. I find your entire response interesting, especially considering that you didn't seem to read the entire thread; had you done so, you'd see that I'm in no way advocating a policy of general dice fudging. Had you done so, you would have come across this post, which clearly details what I consider to be the GM's agency. As shown in that post, there is ONE circumstance in which I think a dice fudge is OK, and that's only if a character is going to die in the first session or two and, in the GM's opinion, that's going to prohibit the story from getting off the ground.
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Post by The Northman on May 9, 2017 7:35:44 GMT -8
Was there a sale on Judgy Pants at McJudgy's Judgy Pants Outlet that I missed?
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Post by ayslyn on May 9, 2017 7:52:11 GMT -8
Was there a sale on Judgy Pants at McJudgy's Judgy Pants Outlet that I missed? Seriously. This is why this never becomes a productive conversation. Only one side is willing to even conceded that the other is a valid way to play.
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